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Topic Started: Dec 7 2013, 10:25 PM (159 Views)
Genghis Khan
Slave
[ * ]
Hi all, i registered to help out 2 friends that play WoC. I personally play with ogres using a death star of ironguts which seems unfair and over powered to them. I did talk to a some ogre players which did say that my list is not OP and seems quite balance. They did say that it can be challenging to face a big unit like that but thats where the general tactics kick in. I will give an about list of what they use...

General on juggernaut in a unit of those other juggernaut... Sorry about the names.
Wizard lvl 4 using tzench magic in a big unit of chaos warriors or chosen. A bsb is added to that unit that uses halberds. A massive unit of marauders with flails. The new beast and i believe a shrine or 2. Sorry i don't know what is on the bsb or general.

Should they avoid going against the deathstar? Or maybe try to divert it in another direction? Or come up with a unit that will face it?

Thanks for your advice, hoping the info you guys give can also be helpful for them too.

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TastyBagel
The Chosen
Well, Ogres are just powerful in general. High toughness, a crazy amount of supporting attacks, causes fear, monstrous so they're immune to stomps.... the Gutstar may be considered 'balanced' but, newer players will have trouble with them.

Generally, Warriors will want to divert the Star with chaff, and throw a bunch of Death Magic (Purple Sun and the like), and only engage it when we can hit it with everything we've got... It can be rough, but it's possible.
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Vantraxx
Member Avatar
The Thrice Cursed
Double hellcanons aimed at cheesy bsb, combine with treason/doom and darkness combo for real fun. Chaff the unit up, redirect with fleeing slaanesh horsemen. Pin with Hortense then send in chariots... we have plenty of tools
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thughes0801
The Chosen
I also played Ogres until coming over to WOC and I can tell you that one of the biggest things your opponents could do to you would be to take mark of nurgle, because you will hit them on fives basically across the board and this doesn't even take into account higher than WS5 troops. If they were to take chosen and mark of nurgle with a shrine and get the WS increase now you would be hitting them on sixes and for Ogres that is basically like saying that you have no way to win.

Another thing that they can do to really cripple you is to cast any sort of initiative based spell or the random movement stuff out of slaanesh. These can be hugely detrimental to any kind of Star. You should look at the warriors of chaos Warlord's Field Manual over in the tactics page. We have written up a pretty in depth review of Ogres in there that should give you a ton of places to start with the tinkering.

Though truthfully I would say that they need to figure out if they are trying to beat you in combat or win through a different method because differing methods require differing builds to make work. Once you do that then it should be easy to build a list a work well against you, since you use a fairly simplistic strategy albeit an amazingly effective one.
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Khornefed
Exalted Guardian
I have two Ogre players in my LGG, and they are a common army in the local tourney scene. I'd say I see the GutStar in about 75% of the builds I face. Thus I tool "just enough" in my force to deal with it:

If I'm running my Khorne list, Chariots, Chariots, Gore-beast chariots, and more chariots. Plus lots of chaff. The chaff needs to do the "redirect freeze" allowing me to launch 3-4 chariots of various types at 1 or both flanks of the star, while getting a block of warriors or skull-crushers up the middle right at 'em. This has worked so well the last couple of times out that my LGG guys are telling me they will just stop taking the Gutstar against me. BTW, I use Khorne halberdiers, so I generate a ton of attacks. This scheme requires good timing, and good strat to deal with the OTHER stuff in the Ogre force, but not a huge amount of luck to pull off if executed properly. But that is the catch to it, and it takes really good knowledge of the rules of maneuver, charging, re-direction etc.

If I'm running a magic list, I tend to run unmarked Sorcs using Death and Shadow in combination. Both can really mess with Ogres. Slaanesh has worked very well here too. Here I will just chaff-annoy the star into making a mistake. By the time that happens, I have used all my other strength to get rid of the Ogre supporting units. Sometimes I never even attack or cast a spell at the star with this strat. If the star never sees combat, it is a HUGE waste of points on the table. Please note that I could use the chaff-annoy tactic in my khorne army too, but hey, if you are running Khorne, it just would be out of character NOT to charge into death or glory!

Note that in neither of my strats do I mention a DP doing anything. I use my DP to up the Ld of the units around him to make sure they behave (esp. Khorne) the way I want them too, and to hunt Ironblasters, thundertusks, and mournefang. Usually he is accompanied by a Shaggoth or a Chimera.
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