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| Discussion; Prayer | |
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| Topic Started: May 18 2004, 07:43 AM (44 Views) | |
| Barb | May 18 2004, 07:43 AM Post #1 |
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'Prayer changes things' We have ALL certainly heard this said several if not many times over. BUT what does it really mean?  What 'things' are changed?  Share your thoughts and comments. There is a 'wealth' of widom in this one small concept and I am always seekig more wisdom. so let's share and discuss and learn from one another concerning prayer. What praying changes and how? Why is it so vital to our walk with Him? Looking forward to some great insights and none of this  ! LOLLove you all! 
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| Stace4Jesus | May 18 2004, 09:52 AM Post #2 |
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 Wait a minute... what do you mean "none of this: oh, you mean the mean spirited stuff... no way.  But, I am with you. Personally, I am not seeing enough of my prayers answered. But, I am seeing some answered. They seem to be of a type.. okay, you ask.. what type is that? It is those quiet ones. Example? I knew you would ask. Okay.. it is like I am pressing in for a healing, or for a personal direction of study for the day... or that someone be saved.. something big.. and I don't get an answer in that topic, but He will answer me in a way that seems to be "behind my back." One that He would answer would be something I have whispered to myself, not really wanting it to be an issue.. just a desire, like wanting a purple shirt to go with that specific pair of pants for work. Later that day, or the next, someone walks up with a "few clothes they just don't want but were too good to throw away." Yep.. there would be a purple shirt. Or, if I have a desire for BBQ, but don't want to take the time to do the work of it, got too many things to pray, read, and study about (oh yes... I have a job too lol) to do a BBQ.. the boss will bring BBQ. Sometimes, there are several of these types of prayers being answered. And, I do not down play them at all. It could be a specific book I want to study.. the Lord will bring it. But, none of these are what I am "praying" for. So, I have tried looking at this deeper. Now, don't go thinking that all I think about in my heart is purple shirts, bbq, and books.. okay, yes the books.. but it is the concept of it I am trying to understand. Now, if I whisper that I want a million dollars.. I don't think He would answer that at all.. but then, that is not something I would whisper. I also don't think that I could go whisper (by whisper, I mean something I would talk to myself about before I enter the Throne Room for prayer... or something that I don't think is an issue in the Kingdom) to myself about someone being saved, healed, delivered... ect. So, anyway.. I know that we need our prayers answered. More than that, those we pray for need them answered. Well.. I have said some, I will watch and see what is said. shalom stacie |
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| WaitingforJesus | May 18 2004, 08:41 PM Post #3 |
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great questions and things to ponder... Hmm Prayer changes things.. I like Stacie have experienced getting an answer to those fleeting thoughts that you didn't even really "pray" and will see those answered. Some prayers have taken a long time for the answers to come around and that is usually because of the situations, I am not at the level to handle the answers so He has to work on me until I can. But as far as the prayer changing things...there is the concepts of changing things in the spiritual realm so that they do not come about in the natural (or vise versa) I know one time there was an issue in front of me that I knew that the Lord didn't want. I felt so helpless about it and as I was in prayer, He said "Change the circumstances" Now this was during the time I was listening to alot of the word of faith teachings(Copelands) but I had no idea what He was talking abou so I just prayed and spoke outloud the words that came up. I said "Lord, I feel that you don't want this to happen. So, by Your Name and by the authority you have givenus by the shedding of Your blood, I speak into the heavens and say no to these plans being brought to pass. Lord, may Your will be done and all glory given to You. In Jesus Name" Now granted, I didn't know what in the world all that was about but,ya know that situation was totally changed. What was planned was not able to happen due to the circumstances around the other people changing... So prayer changing things? Yes. Do I understand all of it? No. Do I do this type of praying all the time? No. But when the prayer are guided by the Holy SPirit ya can't loose! I feel that our prayers are needed and sometime all the Lord wants us to do is ASK! If you just gave your child everything you thought they wanted or needed, they would never have to ask for anything would they? But it builds a reltionship when there is a asking giving and recieveing. That is His desire for us. Well I hope I have made some sort of sense.... Blessings to you all.... Reaching Higher!  Kay |
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| Barb | May 22 2004, 07:17 AM Post #4 |
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Stacie, to answer your question: Wait a minute... what do you mean "none of this: What I meant was not 'poking' our swords at one another because of different points of view, levels of maturity, or understanding. Feel free to use it in the spririt realm on the enemy all you want, just not on one another. This leads me to a an extreemly important issue concerning prayer and how we ought to pray and not pray. We are to pray in accordance with His will not our own. With that in mind we must be mindful of the power of our own tongues and the words we allow to depart from them, especially during prayer. Often we desire to 'see' what we think His will is to be done that we slip into directive and manipulative prayer which all equate to whitchcraft, we must guard ourselves from this. We also must be careful that the words we pray bring life and not death. Sometimes we look upon anothers circumstance and situation and because we are offended by it, meaning we don't like what we see or what they are dealing with or we see they are struggling etc we tend to pray them off God's alter and when God refuses to remove them from it, we pray harder and with more ferverency yet the situation seems to get worse and the more we pray the more intense the ordeal AND sometimes we pray and the situation immediatly changes and things are honky dory again...but are they really? This is where praying in accordance with His will becomes so vitally important as is knowing that will. I have said it before and I will continue to say it, we can't know His will unless we know Him and can 'see' with His eyes and not our own. We have to be able to 'see' the BIG picture. To 'see' and gain some sort of understanding to what He is doing or allowing in another's life. We also have to rememeber that although everything is within His grasp and control we still have personal choice and He will not overrride our choices even if they are contrary to His plans for us, unless we turn and ask Him to(repentance) When it comes to answered prayer I have also experienced the "small whispers" being answered above the petitions of warfare. I pondered this for a very, very long time and although I do not claim to know why I do ubderstand now that those things whispered deep within my heart usually concern me and for the most part are 'conditioned' upon the condition and position of my own heart, somthing I have power to change through my own choices and those things petitioned for often involve the hearts of others where I have no power to manuever or manipulate change towards God. In other words, Although I petition Father on behalf of another the cicumstance and situation still is about them and the Lord alone and what He is doing to draw them unto Himself. That is none of my affair, it is between Him and them and it is my concern to support them and point them to Him despite all else. Scripture is very clear on minding our own business and supporting one another, whether we agree or not as long as He is the focus. (there is an entire BIG picture just on this thought alone) Make sense? As far as prayer changing things and what changes I have learned that I am what changes above all else when I submit myself to prayer. To humble myself before the Lord in prayer, no matter what type of prayer, reveals not only to me but also the natural world my attitude towards the Father; and within the realm of the spirit all know who it is I submit to. As we draw closer to Him our communication with Him increases and it should be that there is not one momenet of any hour that we are not in communication with Father in our spirit. Getting in touch with Him should be something as natural to us as breathing, feeling Him there beside us should be our norm and not something reserved for a "Holy Ghost" good time at church or Bible study etc. To learn to always be in touch with Him is sometimes difficult as it does take a conscious effort on our part to train our spirit to agree with His spirit and work together to keep the focus on Him. As we learn to do this we will see a change in our prayer life and patterns. We will see that He is moving and that He is hearing and that no matter what we do, He will have His way and we will be in agreement because we will gain understanding to His way above our own. Our prayers will become more focused and accurate and we will learn to say what we need to say and be finished knowing that He is able and that He is already moving. In short we will cease to pray as the those who desire to bring attention upon themselves and we will spend our time in secret prayer that is constant. From that place we will always be ready to lift a word for another no matter where we are or what the circumstance is and we will 'feel' His pressence always. People will 'see' Him in us and will know that we carry His heart on our sleeve for them. I will warn you though, because of this 'exposure' one must be more guarded against the evil one who's mission it is to discourage and discredit to humiliate and undermine so that we soon put His heart away and we slink back into the safe place of 'self'. As far as warfare is concerned I have learned to go when He says Go and stay when He says stay. What is a battle to fight for and what is not( sometimes we need need to draw back and allow God to have His way and just 'get out of the way'). One important thing I have learned from my 'visits' in the heavenlies is that it is not our battle, we are not warriors, the angles are and Jesus is the captain of the Host. Our part is to release, support and direct and step out of the way of the battle. We see this in Daniel when the angel came to him and explained the delay. When we pray we release the angels to war in our behalf, we either bind or loose. This is why we need to be very careful as to what we speak whether we are in deep intercession in the midst of a battle or just humming along the highway pondering, praying, and singing in our vehicles. So guard your hearts, be wise as serpants and gentle as doves always doing as you see the Father doing, not for your own sakes but for His so that others may know Him through you and He recieve the Glory. When you go to warfare be bold, strong and courageous with a strength that is not your own but one that is only found in Him and that comes from a place deep within His heart, our strong tower of protection. The focus always on Him and bringing Him glory according to His plans and not our own. One last thought. Sometimes it is better to just let God be God and trust that He is able and that He knows what he is doing even when we do not understand. Certainly we don't understand why this ine is sick or that one is taken home or why calamity has struck here and not there. But one thing we MUST be certain of, He has it all in His hand and He knows. He knows what each heart needs to be brought to Him and that is His single most reason for it all, to restore us ALL back to Him. We don't have to understand the why's of it all, but we do have to trust and beleive that He is for us and His goal is to fellowship with us as He did with Adam in the garden. That is my understanding to date concerning prayer in a nutshell sorta. There is so very much more to share and learn and this is just a smidge of what I 'see' and understand. I do know that there is much to know concerning the authority that has been given to us that we have not even realized or tapped into concerning prayer and our authority over the angels. I know we do not use them as we should...hmmm maybe they are getting tired of playing cards and backgammon and are just 'waiting' for us to 'wake up' here.... <_< I do know I have much more to learn and I am looing forward to learning it! How exciting! WaHOo!   Can't wait! |
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| Stace4Jesus | May 22 2004, 09:49 AM Post #5 |
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Hey Thank you. I have been blessed by this. Please make it a point to continue to share with us those things that He reveals and leads you to instruct us with. Maybe if you are led to give us examples and applications... trials and victories, testimonies... anything that will help us grasp the fullness of the power and authority in prayer. So, please, let us testify of our answered prayers, even the little bitty simple ones. I do believe prayer can change the world, and I believe that if we can seek the deep unto the deep in understanding by blessing each other, we can truely make some great changes as the Lord directs us. shalom stacie |
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| Barb | May 22 2004, 06:54 PM Post #6 |
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ummm....sure!  As He leads 
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| Stace4Jesus | May 30 2004, 11:54 AM Post #7 |
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You know those things we were talking about, the small things we say we would like to have and then they seem to come to us behind our backs? "When it comes to answered prayer I have also experienced the "small whispers" being answered above the petitions of warfare." Well, I was reading Lake again. You know, when he was a lad, he went with his father to the office of a very important man, and there he saw somethings that "impressed" him enough to say, "I am going to have an office just like this and a sesk like that with my name on it when I am a man." When he was about 30, he was invited to work with a firm in Chicago and the office they set up for him had "just exactly the duplicate" of that office from years earlier. Lakes tells us that he never mentioned that to anyone, but, there is was in front of him, right down to his name inlaid in mother of pearl. Lake says the soul is creative, and it brings things to pass. He says, "Don't you know that when the supreme desire of your heart is known to God, that all the spiritual energy of your nature and the powers of God given to you begin to concentrate and work along that certain line and form, and there comes by the unconscious creative excercise of faith into being that our soul calls for. That is the creative action of faith, you and God together, evidencing the power of creative desire." First, I am fully understanding what he is saying, but I think there is something to it. And second, I can see where we are to guard our hearts, a. we could be dangerous b. we could be "effective" in the wrong areas. Well, if you have any thoughts, talk to me. I will have nothing less than all that He has to offer me, and those whom He desires to bless through me... Right on? Right on! shalom stacie |
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| Barb | May 30 2004, 02:34 PM Post #8 |
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Stacie I can agree 100% with this as I too have experienced such a thing as Lake did. Years ago (around 25 or so) when I was first born again I was walking through the parking lot where I worked. Being a single mom I was struggling to make ends meet and I am not even sure I had a vehicle of my own at the time let alone the $$ to purchase one. However, I walked past this vehicle that caught me eye. It was nothing special. Just a station wagon type thing call a Cherokee. I had no idea what an SUV was or what make etc it was but it was white and red and it was sharp in my eye...I don't even think it was very new. But I said to myself that someday I thought I may like to have one of those. Never thought of it or said it to any other person. Then 6 years ago our family vehicle needed a new engine, I loved my Safari van and this was the first brand new vehicle my husband and I had bought together and this news was very hard for me to take. We had to find a new vehicle and fast. I prayed and had a dream and although I did not remember the whole dream I know it was God showing me the new vehicle we were to buy. God also spoke to my husband through a co-worker stearing us to the place to buy it. So we headed out one Saturday searching. We went to the place we bought our Safari hoping to find something new and that we liked as much, even a new Safari is what I was hoping for. But the new ones did not have the type of seating we were looking for etc so I knew this was not it. As we were leaving that place my husband mentioned the other place and we went there. When We got out on the lot it was lined with SUV's . As I walked around I went to one and noticed the front grill area and knew this it. This was the new vehicle for us. Then I found out that it was called Jeep Cherokee....well not just a Cherokee but GRAND Cherokee! It wasn't until we brought it home a couple weeks later that I remembered what i had whipered that day in the parking lot. So YES! Absolutely our words are powerful and creative. Now just think for a sec or two how much authority and power our words hold when we are dwelling in Him and are doing all we do out of obedience! and YES we do need to be extreemly careful of the words we speak because the power of life and death is in the tongue. If it were not so God would not have said to us to speak "move!" to a mountain and beleive it will happen. For whatever we ask for and believe will happen and the sword cuts two ways. We also have creative power. God spoke and it happened. Creation occured! That same power is within us today and it is the same as it was in Genesis. As we grow closer to Him the more authority we have to use that power. This is the 'understanding' that Peter walked in when he said 'silver and gold I have none, but what I have I give to you in Jesus name walk!' He knew he had nothing to help that guy in the natural and that giving him a piece of silver or gold would only satisfy him for a day. What he needed was something eternal and he knew that Jesus is the source for that and that he had authority to tap into that source. He knew he had the authority because of his relationship with Jesus. AWESOME! So yea...I would say we need to be careful with what we say. Prophets must be even more extreemly careful because of the anointing they carry. What they speak can cause others to change their lives and beliefs accordingly and therefor a prophet must not be hasty in what they share and must choose their words carefully and in fear of the Lord. Not sure I understand what you mean by being effective in the 'wrong' areas. Yea....I want it ALL too!! Selfish thing that I am! LOL But hey isn't it great we can BOTH have it ALL and there is still so much MORE for everyone else!! |
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| Stace4Jesus | May 30 2004, 07:02 PM Post #9 |
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Cool post, thanks. I know these things are true. I will be studying the Word more here and seeking HIS help in bringing this from a "knowing about" to a knowing for me. Keep sharing. Examples help "click it." As you are led. His servant stacie  |
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| Barb | May 31 2004, 07:44 AM Post #10 |
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LOL Stacie! Scripture is FULL of examples of just this type of thing. The quiet whispers of the hearts of the Hebrew slaves, that sounded like shouts to God, the quietness of Hannah's prayer for a son that God honored, and how about the cry of the hearts of Abraham and Sarah for a son? We don't see huge prayers of intercession going on for these things yet God heard and honored these requests. Having read many things that Andrew Murray has written on prayer I and compared his teaching to what I 'see' in the scripture I am convinced that it is the stillness and steadfastnes of our hearts that get's God's attention moreso than loud boisterous public prayer. That our answers are found as a result of our willingness to be close to Him...again..the position of our heart. The scripture about praying on the street comes comes to mind. I think there are many secret prayer requests that are answered every day simply because of the whipser of a mans heart and his belief that it is already finished in Him than those who are publically shared and interceded for. There is just a dynamic that goes along with that intimate relationship of communion with our Lord that causes Him to hear our whispers above our shouts at times. All is coupled with our faith Don't misunderstand I am not against loud boisterous warfare prayer, ha ha but even then the spirit realm is not deaf! lol and we really need not be loud, but I also know that there is something about our flesh that 'needs' to be released when we are in deep warfare prayer. I know for me I can't contain the spirit and I must have some sort of release....and sometimes I am just plain riled up and have a need to really kick butt There is another couple of guys I have recently read concerning our words. Don Gossett and EW Kenyon. Both do an excellent job of sharing lheir experiences and what they have come to know about this topic. Also Derik Prince is a good source. It is hard to separate our prayer lives from our daily speech or the power of those words. At least for me, as I am always endeavoring to be in prayer and in close contact with the Lord either in conscious prayer and communication of in sub-conscious prayer in tongues either way He is always on my heart and mind...like a new love..except our relationship is old...and yet always fresh and new...lol I have warned my husband that he is not the only guy I think about all day...lol ( he totally understands!!) lol But...this is how it is with me and how I beleive it should be if we are to pray without ceasing and if we are to walk by the spirit at all times. Beyond the prayer aspect of things, the prophetic power of our words is tremendous and having a prophetic gift and 'seen' the power of the words that have come from me and other prophetic people I try to be careful and weigh what I say carefully. I take the warnings in scripture seriously concerning our words and speech and beleive me I am certain that at times it is much better to be silent that speak. A person can speak volumes through their silence to those who have ears to hear. I would say if you are seeking to renew your mind in this area then concsiously think of the Lord and pray in tongues and continue to pray in tongues. Make a conscious effort. Go about your day. Then every time you realize you are not praying in tongues start again. Train yourself to pray always. I have learned that by doing this I have opened a whole new realm before me and I gained some understanding of how to walk in the natural while remaining in the spirit....an awesome, awesome revelation! So like now how about you....and any one else... I am sure you all have many stories to share of answered prayer and just how those prayer were first uttered whether from within the silence of you r heart or through your mouth. Just be sharing you may 'see' how this has already been at work within your own lives. Love ya! Barb |
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