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Great Revivalists; Part One
Topic Started: Aug 6 2006, 01:09 PM (227 Views)
Stace4Jesus
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These articles blessed and opened my eyes early in my walk with Jesus. I pray they will bless you too.

stace

Part One


Quote:
 
GREAT HEALING REVIVALISTS -
HOW GOD'S POWER CAME.

BY ANDREW STROM & LARRY MAGNELLO.



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Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, Maria Woodworth-Etter, John Alexander Dowie and others, plus the ENIGMA OF WILLIAM BRANHAM...

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Introduction
"FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT"



The Greek words for "BE FILLED with the Holy Spirit" (Eph 5:18), should be translated, "BE BEING FILLED with the Holy Spirit". In other words, we are to be constantly seeking God so that we will become more and more full of His Holy Spirit. Some people believe that we Christians only receive one infilling of God's Spirit in our lifetime. Such people may be sincere, but they are SINCERELY WRONG. This article is about men and women of God who were not satisfied with an initial token of God's grace or presence in their lives. They were hungry for more, and in their desperation for greater and greater depths in God, they smashed through every barrier and overthrew every obstacle to experience an ever-greater measure of God's holy presence and glory,- and to gain an anointing the like of which has rarely been seen since the days of the apostles.

It was MORE OF JESUS that they were hungering after, and He did not disappoint them, though the road was often narrow and winding. It was a path that few cared to travel. But it was simply not enough to be Spirit- baptized and speaking in tongues. They had to be ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH,- baptized with the Holy Spirit AND WITH FIRE. And they had to see God glorified in their day, in the most profound way possible. They could not bear to live any longer, the way things were. Where was the power, where was the glory of apostolic days? They took it upon themselves, and were almost driven onward by God - to find out.

And so, with fastings and prayer, with agonizing travail and wrestlings such as Jacob had with God, with ridding their lives not only of their sins, but of their fleshly, soulish "WAYS" also - the ways of man's strength and man's power,- they battled on, right into the very throneroom of God. And by the time they got there they were truly broken and humbled men and women, true possessors of 'clean hands and a pure heart'. And He met them there in the most profound way. Tell me, friend, do you hunger and thirst after more of God? Is it your one desire to love Him with ALL your heart and ALL your mind and ALL your soul and ALL your strength? And do you desire to see Him glorified on the earth to the highest possible degree? "And you shall seek me, and find me, WHEN YOU SHALL SEARCH FOR ME WITH ALL YOUR HEART" (Jer 29:13).

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Chapter One
SMITH WIGGLESWORTH.



Smith Wigglesworth was without doubt one of the most anointed men of God that has lived in recent times. He was known as the Apostle of Faith, and if anyone deserved to be described as "full of faith and of the Holy Ghost", it was him. He lived and walked continually in the presence of God. And the miracles that accompanied his ministry were of the sort that have seldom been seen since the days of the apostles. People born blind and deaf, cripples - twisted and deformed by disease, others on death's door with cancer or sickness of every kind,- all were healed by the mighty power of God. Even the dead were raised.

Born in 1859 into poverty, Smith Wigglesworth was converted by the Methodists at eight years of age. Even then, he was hungry for God and hungry for souls. He was in the choir of the local Episcopal church. "When most of the boys in the choir were twelve years of age they had to be confirmed by the bishop. I was not twelve, but between nine and ten, when the bishop laid his hands on me. I can remember that as he imposed his hands I had a similar experience to the one I had forty years later when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. My whole body was filled with the consciousness of God's presence, a consciousness that remained with me for days. After the confirmation service all the other boys were swearing and quarreling, and I wondered what had made the difference between them and me." (Stanley Frodsham, 'Smith Wigglesworth, Apostle of Faith', pg 13. -Most of the following quotes are also taken from this excellent book).

Later, Wigglesworth was fully-immersed in water by the Baptists. But please remember that all of his early years of ministry and seeking God came well before the 'Azusa Street' Revival and the early Pentecostal movement. Smith had a hunger after God, and he experienced many breakthroughs into new levels of anointing even well before he experienced the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. He was already renowned for his healing ministry, and had seen God move in great power, even well before the new Pentecostal experience was being talked about. Unlike us today, who basically begin with Baptism in the Spirit as our first real anointing, for Smith this was the culmination of years of seeking and hungering after God, and so it was much closer to a real New Testament enduement of "power from on high".

Smith Wigglesworth: "I had the grounding in Bible teaching among the Plymouth Brethren. I marched under the blood and fire banner of the Salvation Army, learning to win souls in the open air. I received the second blessing of sanctification and a clean heart under the teaching of Reader Harris and the Pentecostal League. I claimed the gift of the Holy Spirit by faith as I waited ten days before the Lord. But in Sunderland, in 1907, I knelt before God and had an Acts 2:4 experience..." (Pg 119). He described this experience as follows: "She [Mrs Boddy, a minister's wife] laid her hands on me and then had to go out of the room. The fire fell. It was a wonderful time as I was there with God alone. He bathed me in power. I was conscience of the cleansing of the precious blood, and I cried out: 'Clean! Clean! Clean!' I was filled with the joy of the consciousness of the cleansing. I was given a vision in which I saw the Lord Jesus Christ. I beheld the empty cross, and I saw Him exalted at the right hand of God the Father. I could speak no longer in English, but I began to praise Him in other tongues as the Spirit of God gave me utterance. I knew then, although I might have received anointings previously, that now, at last, I had received the real Baptism in the Holy Spirit as they received on the day of Pentecost." (Pg 44).

After this experience, there was no stopping Smith Wigglesworth. He was a flame for God, and the fire fell wherever he went. He said: "I believe God's ministers are to be flames of fire. Nothing less than flames. Nothing less than mighty instruments, with burning messages, with hearts full of love. They must have a DEPTH OF CONSECRATION, that God has taken full charge of the body, and it exists only that it may manifest the Glory of God. A Baptism into death in which the person is purified and energized..." He was certainly possessor of an audacity, a daring, a boldness the like of which has rarely been seen in Christendom in modern times. It was not uncommon for him to announce in his meetings: "Every sermon that Christ preached was prefaced by a model miracle. We are going to follow His example. The first person in this large audience that stands up, whatever his or her sickness, I'll pray for that one and God will deliver him or her." And the first person to stand, even if they were the most deformed cripple, would be healed!

On another typical occasion, a man came forward for prayer for stomach pain, and, commanding the pain to be gone, Wigglesworth punched the man in the stomach so hard that he was sent half-way across the room (completely healed)! This kind of thing happened more than once. Wigglesworth believed in COMMANDING the sick to be healed in Jesus' name. His was an aggressive, holy faith. He was a "violent" man, taking ground from the devil by force. And yet he was also a man of great compassion, as well as of great authority. The devil certainly felt it when Smith Wigglesworth hit town!

A number of people were also raised literally from the dead under Smith's ministry. Here is his own account of one occasion: "My friend said, 'She is dead.' He was scared. I have never seen a man so frightened in my life. 'What shall I do?' he asked. You may think that what I did was absurd, but I reached over into the bed and pulled her out. I carried her across the room, stood her against the wall and held her up, as she was absolutely dead. I looked into her face and said, 'In the name of Jesus I rebuke this death.' From the crown of her head to the soles of her feet her whole body began to tremble. 'In the name of Jesus, I command you to walk,' I said. I repeated, 'In the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus, walk!' and she walked." (Pg 59). Not only was this woman raised from the dead, but she was instantly healed from a terrible illness also. She began to testify to people of her death experience and restoration. It has been recorded that Smith Wigglesworth raised 23 people from the dead in total, over the years of his ministry.

One time when Smith was waiting at a bus-stop, a woman was having trouble getting her small dog, which had followed her, to go home. First she tried sweet-talking it, and asking it to please go home. But after awhile of trying this to no avail, the woman suddenly stamped her foot and said severely: 'Go home at once!' The dog immediately took off home, with it's tail between it's legs. 'That's how you have to treat the devil', said Wigglesworth, loudly enough for all those waiting at the bus-stop to hear. And this was his attitude toward the devil, every moment of every waking day. He literally travelled the world in the 1920's and 1930's, and thousands were saved and healed everywhere he went. Often he would arrive in a place almost unknown and unheralded, but within days there would be thousands thronging to hear, the power of God demonstrated in his meetings was so great. God was truly glorified everywhere he went.

He was a man who walked and lived in the very presence of God. And yet, in many ways he was a very natural, down-to-earth man. And neither was he afraid of issuing the odd stern rebuke. His object was to be in constant, unbroken communion with the Father. He had spent hours and days fervently seeking God in his early years, but later, "Although his life was a combination of incessant prayer and praise, and every word and work was an act of worship, he was not given to protracted periods of fasting and prayer." (Pg 122). Instead, he had learned the secret of being in continuous, intimate communion with God (sometimes withdrawing quietly into himself for this purpose), even when he was in a crowd of people. He walked by faith, and he was "in the Spirit" at all times. This was one vital secret to his success. He said, "There are two sides to this Baptism: The first is, you possess the Spirit; The second is that the Spirit possesses you." (See 'The Life of Smith Wigglesworth' by Jack Hywel-Davies). He had counted the cost, and everything was God's. He was a man who truly understood GODLY AUTHORITY, and he WALKED in it by faith. He said, "'Be filled with the Spirit,' ie., be CRAMMED with the Spirit, so filled that there will be no room left for anything else." That was the way he lived. Full of audacity, full of daring, "full of faith and of the Holy Ghost."

On one occasion, he recalled, "I was travelling to Cardiff in South Wales. I had been much in prayer on the journey. The carriage was full of people whom I knew to be unsaved, but as there was so much talking and joking I could not get in a word for my Master. As the train was nearing the station, I thought I would wash my hands... and as I returned to the carriage, a man jumped up and said, 'Sir, you convince me of sin,' and fell on his knees there and then. Soon the whole carriage of people were crying out the same way. They said, 'Who are you? What are you? You convince us all of sin'..." (Stanley Frodsham, 'Smith Wigglesworth, Apostle of Faith', pg 80). This episode reminds me very much of another bold, forthright and anointed evangelist - Charles G. Finney, who had found after a mighty Baptism of the Holy Spirit some years before, that even passing comments that he made pierced people to the heart with conviction of sin. He had gone on to become one of the greatest Revivalists of all time. (He died in 1875).

Smith Wigglesworth placed great emphasis on purity and holiness, like all true Revivalists. He said, "You must every day make higher ground. You must deny yourself to make progress with God. You must refuse everything that is not pure and holy. God wants you pure in heart. He wants you to have an intense desire after holiness... Two things will get you to leap out of yourselves into the promises of God today. One is purity, and the other is FAITH, which is kindled more and more BY PURITY." (Pg 125). This one statement contains what is probably the key secret to Smith Wigglesworth's outstanding success in God. And it is obviously a key that is well worth remembering for us also. Another point to remember is that Smith was very aware of the dangers of money, and guarded himself carefully against the possibility of covetousness entering in. He was truly beyond reproach in this area also.

It is my belief that Smith Wigglesworth was a kind of direct "forerunner" of the kind of ministries that are about to arise in our day. I believe that the coming apostolic ministries, who will be bearers of true Revival in these last days, will combine the daring, miracle-working faith of a Smith Wigglesworth with the deeply convicting 'repentance' preaching of a Charles Finney. And they will move under a mighty anointing that combines the best of both of these types of ministries. What glorious days these will be! Smith Wigglesworth himself died in 1946 at the ripe old age of 87, a flame of God to the very end. May he be an example to us all.











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- CLICK HERE TO RETURN TO 'REVIVAL SUPER-SITE'.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This article Copyright © Andrew Strom, 1996, 2004.


This book can be found at- http://www.revivalschool.com

{Grateful acknowledgement to Larry Magnello for a good portion of the concept and some of the research that has gone into this publication. Used by permission}.
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LancashirePOF
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I can't wait to read all these post this week.... this is going to be awesome. Thanks so much for sharing...
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Stace4Jesus
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Cool..

And something that I have been pondering is the mention of the name Kenneth Hagin in the article beyond.. ie... maybe one you have not read yet, soooo I ain't gona say too much.. but his name was brought up in a good way, a way that gives more validity to the Lord's working through him.

I have gone back to the Lord and began asking Him more about Hagin and the things that Hagin heard from the Lord.

uh... that is as far as I have gotten yet.. lol


stace
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TheGloryisHere
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Quote-- Later, Wigglesworth was fully-immersed in water by the Baptists. But please remember that all of his early years of ministry and seeking God came well before the 'Azusa Street' Revival and the early Pentecostal movement. Smith had a hunger after God, and he experienced many breakthroughs into new levels of anointing even well before he experienced the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. He was already renowned for his healing ministry, and had seen God move in great power, even well before the new Pentecostal experience was being talked about. Unlike us today, who basically begin with Baptism in the Spirit as our first real anointing, for Smith this was the culmination of years of seeking and hungering after God, and so it was much closer to a real New Testament enduement of "power from on high".



I don't know who wrote that, but it's not quite accurate and it's not possible for that to happen. Smith in his own writings, and according to his granddaughter or great granddaughter, said he started having healings after he was filled with the Holy Spirit. You can't heal anyone without the Holy Spirit. You can't have different levels of anointing without the Holy Spirit. You can't have an excellant ministry without the Holy Spirit. Maybe he received the Holy Spirit and the power before he spoke in tongues, and that's where the confusion lies. You don't have to speak in tongues to recieve the Holy Spirit. But, tonges is nice to have. It's a great pick me up. Sounds a little Baptist denial saying he had healings and anontings without the the power of the Holy Spirit. Sorry, that doesn't compute.

Not trying to offend anyone, just getting the facts, or is it the truth, straight?
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TheGloryisHere
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On a positive note:

Quote: The Greek words for "BE FILLED with the Holy Spirit" (Eph 5:18), should be translated, "BE BEING FILLED with the Holy Spirit". In other words, we are to be constantly seeking God so that we will become more and more full of His Holy Spirit. Some people believe that we Christians only receive one infilling of God's Spirit in our lifetime.


This is what Kenneth Copeland preaches too, and how I believe. I believe we can be filled and filled many times with the Holy Spirit too. Kinda like getting your car filled up with gas. You can't make it for a life time on the first tank of gas. LOL You have to keep going to church, err the gas station and-hey fill me up, will ya.
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Stace4Jesus
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That was a good illustration. Thanks.

It has been said that we are no greater than our teachers. Thus, it is good to allow the Teacher (Holy Spirit sent to us) to teach us and expand our understanding. Even so, as the day quickly approaches that our Lord will return, the knowledge of the Lord is being revealed more.

I posted these notices so that we might be encouraged to press into the Lord more and more, to allow us a quick review of the lives of those of whom the Lord has worked through in the past and even now, still desires to work through us as we yield to Him.

We have some here, and others who will be sent here, who are called into a healing ministry. For them, it is good to see the Lord working through other men and women.

As the reading goes on, there are things that have bothered me, things I am sure will bother you too, but I pray the fruit of these posts will bother the devil more. Go God... Go!


stace



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LancashirePOF
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yeah that's incorrect information on Wigglesworth...but I am enjoying all this information :flying

I believe "TheGlory" is correct, Wiggs received his baptism in the Holy Spirit and then spoke with other tongues at a later time and thought he didn't receive the baptism. I'm not saying that is an actual fact, but its what I remember reading.

I really like the analogy of being filled with the Holy Spirit -- its a good one.

Let me quickly go over the Baptism: When you receive Jesus, the Holy Spirit bapizes you in Him, and at this point you receive the Holy Spirit. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is Jesus baptizing you in the Spirit. The baptism in the Holy Spirit surges spirituality for witnessing. Healing always follows along Evangelism, so there is a connection there. Baptism in the Holy Spirit also provides us with much more and deeper revelation knowlede along with more gifts in operation.

You don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to see healing, but when you are they'll be at a different level...watch this now: One can witness and convert someone to Christ without being baptized in the Holy Spirit -- the person being witnessed to receives a new nature, of God Himself, and the Holy Spirit. So, you can't think that one couldn't minister healing unless they were baptized in the Holy Spirit, as healing parralells with salvation. To really drive the point think of the Name of Jesus. EVERY Christian has FULL authority to use the Name of Jesus, whether they understand how to or not makes no difference, they have FULL authority and you don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit for this. You are given the Name at your new birth. It is yours. There is healing power released by the way of the Name.

I said all that to say, yes we all ought to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, however being baptized in the Holy Spirit means a lot more than what most people experience. Any Christian can talk to someone about Jesus or stand in faith about a healing. And they SHOULD!!! The baptism and being filled ought to result into ministering the Holy Spirit to others -- there is an enormous difference. Salvation can come in bunches and healing can as well, not to mention it can be instant. Special anointing and gifts necessary for this?? You'll never find it in the NT. You have the nature of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the use of the mighty Name of Jesus. What more would you need to do business??

These typical special anointing topics are not in context with the NT, its an OT mindset. His nature, Spirit, Name and infilling and then many hesitate and are waiting for something special or additional. You already have what is special.

The five-fold and special ministries or the gifts of the Holy Spirit are usually tangled up into what I just discussed and leave people a bit hanging. We'll do indepth stuff in the near future.

Blessings
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Stace4Jesus
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At the current, I believe the anointing of the Lord comes in two ways, through the unction that rises from within, and from the anointing, endueing that comes upon. I believe that the Copelands and Hagins teach us of the unctions, and Lake, Curry, Hogan et al teach us of the anointing upon.

Lake was already casting out the devil and many were being healed under his ministry when He received the "liguid fire" that flowed through him like a river and opened him up even more to see diseases in a body, tell the doctors, lay hands on the sick to a greater degree and see them healed. Thus, we have the testimonies of God working through him to a great degree.

One of the things that Lake did not like was the teaching of some that led to a 'weak' baptism of the Holy Spirit. Under these teachings, people were being baptized and speaking in tongues, yet Lake said it would have been better if they had not been baptized that way because once they received this baptism, they were almost unteachable. They settled for what they had.

John Lake was also upset that where ever the Holy Spirit worked in great ways, that men would try to come in and organize things.

On another note, how did the disciples go out two by two and heal the sick? They went on the authority of the Word. They were not filled with the Holy Spirit until Jesus rose and then visited with them before He ascended. That is when He breathed on them and they were filled. Yet, He also told them to tarry until they were endued with the Power of the Holy Spirit to be witnesses.

Smith Wigglesworth sought after God, as did John Lake, with a passion. Yet, Lake's wife died, why? I have heard it said that if she had stood on the Covenant and the promises that are taught to us (Copeland's Faith Message) she would have not died. Can this be true? I believe it to be true. Lake himself said at an older age that there were many things that he did not know ... but oh the zeal to know the Lord more and His power was steadfast in his hearts desire.

Can it be that our ignorance, such as Lake's first wife if this is the case, allow us to be killed? Yes, that is what the Word says. There must be faith. Mueller, another great man of God, in the orphanage would sit the children down at the table, many many children, and wait on the Lord to bring the food. He did all this without a morsal of food in the building. Why? Faith. Lake could put his hand under the microscope with a deadly disease on his hand and allow the doctors to watch the disease die. Why? Power. It is not one or the other, it is both.

Rodney Howard Brown, at a young age was baptized in the power of the Holy Spirit, so much so that as he pointed his finger at someone, they would fall under the power of the Lord. He said it was like a pistol in his finger, pointing and shooting the Power of God at people. Yet, the Lord withheld His power from him until he matured in the things of the Lord. The levels of the power are controlled by God.

Benny Hinn locked himself away with the Holy Spirit for a year before he began his ministry, building a relationship with the Holy Spirit. His desire was to have the type of relationship with Him that he had witnessed in Kathryn.

Kathryn tells us in her book that she gave up her life at the end of a street about 4pm. She told the Lord that if He could use a one as her, then she was willing to give it all up. She set out to preach, yet it was when she began teaching on the Holy Spirit that the miracles began.

Faith for healing rises within us when we hear the Word, yet, at the same time while the Word is being taugh, the manifestation of the Holy Spirit will rest upon another whose faith has not risen up within them, and He heals them. Likewise, He rests upon and heals some who are not even seeking to be healed but are seeking for the healing of others.

Why would you hit someone in the belly when they come to you to have you lay your hands on them for healing? What could posses a person, Wigs, to do something like that? And, that person rise up from the ground healed? It is called relationship. You got to be hearing the Lord before you go off and hit someone.

The disciples walked with Jesus for three years, saw Him die, and then ate breakfast with Him. They had faith. Then, they waited for the power as they were told. The result of faith and power is the beginning of the church.

Does everyone have the gift of healing? (manifestation of the Holy Spirit upon a person for supernatural healing) No. There are also gifts of administration.
Does everyon have the promise of healing, of laying hand on the sick and the promise they will recover? Yes.

Is it true that at some time, the Lord requires that our healing come by faith and not by the gift? Ie.. we are responsible to acquire our healing by faith in God. Yes. Does that stop the gift of healing from overshaddowing us like a hen covers her chicks? No.

This is good topic stuff... it is good to discuss these issues and grow in Him.


stace
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LancashirePOF
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At the current, I believe the anointing of the Lord comes in two ways, through the unction that rises from within, and from the anointing, endueing that comes upon. I believe that the Copelands and Hagins teach us of the unctions, and Lake, Curry, Hogan et al teach us of the anointing upon.

Does everyone have the gift of healing? (manifestation of the Holy Spirit upon a person for supernatural healing) No. There are also gifts of administration.
Does everyon have the promise of healing, of laying hand on the sick and the promise they will recover? Yes.


hmm....I believe the answer is yes to what I copied in bold print. Friday I will be around a lot lot more... The way you stated that is like saying if you don't have the special anointing, then just follow the things Copelands and them say, because that's our limits. Ask yourself why do people teach that way?? Is it because they are bending the Word toward experiences or are they bending experiences toward the Word. Try to context that in the New Testament and not by what TV preachers or even old books have said or ANY kind of experiences that anyone has discussed.

See, I don't defend this because I'm afraid I don't have a calling....He has already called me ( Stace I know you have more than one of the five-fold too), so I'm defending this because its the way I'm seeing it.

I'm super short on time with my final exam Thursday, so we'll continue this and in the mean time add to this if you'd like. Bring forth scriptures and what others have said etc.

The Holy Spirit dwells IN US and the manifestation upon comes from whithin us. If the manifestation didn't come from whithin us, then the manifestation would come upon without us. It all comes from the Spirit of Christ working through us.

The Holy Spirit within must be released outward, to impact this realm, otherwise He is imprisoned in a physical body and is a spirit realm connection only. He is meant to work through us to move into the physical realm, therefore working in both realms. He doesn't work independent of us, but He works through us. If He worked independent from us, all would be saved and healed etc. He works through us and He is the anointing.

Think of this: Can the Holy Spirit IN US not have an anointing? Or does He have an anointing? Of course He has an anointing, anything less doesn't fall in context with the Word. Now does His anointing whithin us just want to sit there? No...

Anyway, there is some food for thought and you can keep this post going, and I will be back by Friday. I hope some of these different perspectives can be helpful.

Blessings.
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Stace4Jesus
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That is good food for thought and prayer..

see ya friday :wave


stace :woopi
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LancashirePOF
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He's omni-prescent as well... The best way I can word it at this moment is His working through you brings His presence into manifestation. I will try to word that better Friday, although I like the way that just came out and the Holy Spirit will enhance that.

The Name of Jesus plays a role here too. His Name is given to ALL and His Name used in faith brings His presence "Upon" Not just as an unction as you described above, but full manifestation. There wouldn't be an additional anointing for that, otherwise one would have to say I only have partial use of the Name or part of the authority of the Name and we definitely know that isn't true....

Just about a week or so ago I was so busy and had a long distance friend having problems and I lent myself to Jesus and used His Name and demons were cast out of her and she became well from anxiety and depresssion nearly instantly and she gave me a report back a couple of days ago and said "its been 5 days and every bit of it has left" She felt a pressure on the back of her head leave. This illustration is to show you that faith in the Name brings healing and deliverence. She wanted to stand in faith, I told her you can if you want, but this is not a faith agreement, its a ministering of the Holy Spirit through faith in His Name.

Now what was best....standing in faith and praying for depression and severe anxiety (was very severe) to go away with a prayer of agreement in faith or ministering the Holy Spirit, in this case it was ministering His Name that brought the manifestation physically. See the Holy Spirit was present in her room, but it was the ministering of the Holy Spirit that made His presencence manifest. I lent myself to Him and He worked through me, my job was simply to let Him flow and work.

I really don't like sharing experiences, by I believe this one brings some clarity to what we're discussing. Could faith agreement worked?? yes, but the ministry of the Spirit is the way to go in most situations. Did she need faith? No, her using it created an agreement in this situation.

I like the WOF teachings on faith for sure, but there is another area of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, which really connects with the reason one is baptized in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourself filled....yes, for sure -- different topic. Can anywone do this. If in Christ and baptized In the Holy Spirit....yes, but one will NEVER rise about the level they put limitations.

Anyway hope this helps. Blessings.
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I got this funny feeling that we are talking the same 'things' but using different terms or something. Perhaps if we slow down and take it step by step.. but...

you get to your study..



:yes
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LancashirePOF
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Yeah, I think we are talking about the same things...I'm just posting away in case someone else stumbles across this thread -- its not really directed to you etc. Actually the thread is a bit too long now and I'll open a new topic soon....

Yes let me get back...lator Gator.
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TheGloryisHere
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You two talked a bunch after this post!! I'm responding to this one before I've read the rest of them.


Quote: You don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to see healing, but when you are they'll be at a different level...watch this now: One can witness and convert someone to Christ without being baptized in the Holy Spirit -- the person being witnessed to receives a new nature, of God Himself, and the Holy Spirit. So, you can't think that one couldn't minister healing unless they were baptized in the Holy Spirit, as healing parralells with salvation. To really drive the point think of the Name of Jesus. EVERY Christian has FULL authority to use the Name of Jesus, whether they understand how to or not makes no difference, they have FULL authority and you don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit for this. You are given the Name at your new birth. It is yours. There is healing power released by the way of the Name.



I'll concede your point on this, since healing is offered as a part of the healing package. But, the part about we don't needs any anointings or even the infilling of the Holy Spirit will only confuse a Baptis and make them think, see there, I don't need the Holy Spirit, or no more of the Holy Spirit than what I have. I think that's dangerous to teach, that we don't need any special anointings. Jesus had special anointings and arent' we supposed to copy Him and be like Him?? You decide.

It is true that before the Holy Spirit was sent to the Earth, the disciples were given the power only using the name of Jesus, to heal the sick, and to cast out devils. But, after the Holy Spirit came, then we are expected to go on to more gifts and anointings. Word of wisdom, word of knowledge, gifts of healings, gifts of miracles is something you might want to read in the NT. It is there. Go look. It takes special anointings to operate in those. No one has ever operated in those gifts without having the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Glory
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TheGloryisHere
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Stace wrote: Yet, He also told them to tarry until they were endued with the Power of the Holy Spirit to be witnesses.


Power to do what? Jesus said power to witness. Yet we can witness to a small degree before we are endued with that power. But, to witness to a great degree and have a greater degree of anointing, we must be filled and endued with that power of the Holy Spirit.

Besides, the disciples had hardly any understanding of the word of God until they will filled up with the Holy Spirit. Babies can only do so much witnessing and healing without the power of the Holy Spirit, using only the Name. There is more power when you combine the power and the fire of the Holy Spirit with The Name of Jesus. I didn't have revelations of the word of God until the Holy Spirit took over my life.

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LancashirePOF
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Quote:
 
we don't needs any anointings or even the infilling of the Holy Spirit will only confuse a Baptis and make them think, see there, I don't need the Holy Spirit, or no more of the Holy Spirit than what I have.


I never said you don't need the anointing. I said you have the anointing dwelling in you.

This ia what I said " Think of this: Can the Holy Spirit IN US not have an anointing? Or does He have an anointing? Of course He has an anointing, anything less doesn't fall in context with the Word. Now does His anointing whithin us just want to sit there? No..."



Quote:
 
It is true that before the Holy Spirit was sent to the Earth, the disciples were given the power only using the name of Jesus, to heal the sick, and to cast out devils. But, after the Holy Spirit came, then we are expected to go on to more gifts and anointings. Word of wisdom, word of knowledge, gifts of healings, gifts of miracles is something you might want to read in the NT. It is there.


That's saying we have grown out of using the Name of Jesus and its time to move on. The Name of Jesus is for you now.... You pray in the Name now, you pray for others in the Name as well. The areas you mentioned are not "instead of", but "In addition too" The Name of Jesus is defintely given to us in Christ now.

I look forward to opening a new thread and comment deeper on Friday. Glory, I truly love and enjoy your input.... ps: Ask lots of questions and share your perspective as we'll continue with this :woopi :woopi
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Stace4Jesus
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Quote:
 
The areas you mentioned are not "instead of", but "In addition too"


To help each other grow deeper into the understandings of the things of God, we add to one another. That glorifies the Lord. One/some understand the crust, one/some understand the filling, and one/some understand the topping. Then we have the whole pie.

:hug


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TheGloryisHere
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I think Lanshire, you spend entirly too much time trying to figure this out in your head, that you end up diluting the revelation to something you can brainiac. You can't learn this in your head. I can also tell you've been reading E.W Kenyons stuff and he has confused you into thinking we dont' need faith, just the name. He is wrong on that account. All through the word you will find faith more than anything else. Just flow with the Holy Spirit and quit over thinking everthing so much, and you will grow up in the Lord a lot faster. Be teachable. The name of Jesus wont' work without the anointing. Just like having a Bible wont' do anything for you if you don't belong to Jesus.
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Stace4Jesus
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Easy there...

Let's walk in love and not with things that can ruffle feathers. Let's add one to another and learn together. Personal opinions of another's study material and content might not be what we are studying at the time, but that does not mean it is not where the Lord wants Robert to be.

The Word exhorts us to all be teachable.


shalom
stace
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LancashirePOF
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Glory,

This is the Lords message board and He desires that we discuss things that can lead to edification.

I don't mind if you disagree, but please include a previous quote, because so far all you've done is disagreed and totally misquoted me -- not one has been correct.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm totally cool about things and really look forward to sharing future postings. You needed to know this and now hopefully we can move on.

Blessings...

Love In Christ,
Robert
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