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| Great Revivalists; Part One | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 6 2006, 01:09 PM (227 Views) | |
| Stace4Jesus | Aug 6 2006, 01:09 PM Post #1 |
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These articles blessed and opened my eyes early in my walk with Jesus. I pray they will bless you too. stace Part One
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| LancashirePOF | Aug 6 2006, 09:41 PM Post #2 |
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I can't wait to read all these post this week.... this is going to be awesome. Thanks so much for sharing... |
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| Stace4Jesus | Aug 7 2006, 07:17 AM Post #3 |
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Cool.. And something that I have been pondering is the mention of the name Kenneth Hagin in the article beyond.. ie... maybe one you have not read yet, soooo I ain't gona say too much.. but his name was brought up in a good way, a way that gives more validity to the Lord's working through him. I have gone back to the Lord and began asking Him more about Hagin and the things that Hagin heard from the Lord. uh... that is as far as I have gotten yet.. lol stace |
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| TheGloryisHere | Aug 7 2006, 07:33 PM Post #4 |
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Quote-- Later, Wigglesworth was fully-immersed in water by the Baptists. But please remember that all of his early years of ministry and seeking God came well before the 'Azusa Street' Revival and the early Pentecostal movement. Smith had a hunger after God, and he experienced many breakthroughs into new levels of anointing even well before he experienced the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. He was already renowned for his healing ministry, and had seen God move in great power, even well before the new Pentecostal experience was being talked about. Unlike us today, who basically begin with Baptism in the Spirit as our first real anointing, for Smith this was the culmination of years of seeking and hungering after God, and so it was much closer to a real New Testament enduement of "power from on high". I don't know who wrote that, but it's not quite accurate and it's not possible for that to happen. Smith in his own writings, and according to his granddaughter or great granddaughter, said he started having healings after he was filled with the Holy Spirit. You can't heal anyone without the Holy Spirit. You can't have different levels of anointing without the Holy Spirit. You can't have an excellant ministry without the Holy Spirit. Maybe he received the Holy Spirit and the power before he spoke in tongues, and that's where the confusion lies. You don't have to speak in tongues to recieve the Holy Spirit. But, tonges is nice to have. It's a great pick me up. Sounds a little Baptist denial saying he had healings and anontings without the the power of the Holy Spirit. Sorry, that doesn't compute. Not trying to offend anyone, just getting the facts, or is it the truth, straight? |
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| TheGloryisHere | Aug 7 2006, 07:37 PM Post #5 |
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On a positive note: Quote: The Greek words for "BE FILLED with the Holy Spirit" (Eph 5:18), should be translated, "BE BEING FILLED with the Holy Spirit". In other words, we are to be constantly seeking God so that we will become more and more full of His Holy Spirit. Some people believe that we Christians only receive one infilling of God's Spirit in our lifetime. This is what Kenneth Copeland preaches too, and how I believe. I believe we can be filled and filled many times with the Holy Spirit too. Kinda like getting your car filled up with gas. You can't make it for a life time on the first tank of gas. LOL You have to keep going to church, err the gas station and-hey fill me up, will ya. |
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| Stace4Jesus | Aug 7 2006, 09:13 PM Post #6 |
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That was a good illustration. Thanks. It has been said that we are no greater than our teachers. Thus, it is good to allow the Teacher (Holy Spirit sent to us) to teach us and expand our understanding. Even so, as the day quickly approaches that our Lord will return, the knowledge of the Lord is being revealed more. I posted these notices so that we might be encouraged to press into the Lord more and more, to allow us a quick review of the lives of those of whom the Lord has worked through in the past and even now, still desires to work through us as we yield to Him. We have some here, and others who will be sent here, who are called into a healing ministry. For them, it is good to see the Lord working through other men and women. As the reading goes on, there are things that have bothered me, things I am sure will bother you too, but I pray the fruit of these posts will bother the devil more. Go God... Go! stace |
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| LancashirePOF | Aug 7 2006, 11:07 PM Post #7 |
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yeah that's incorrect information on Wigglesworth...but I am enjoying all this information I believe "TheGlory" is correct, Wiggs received his baptism in the Holy Spirit and then spoke with other tongues at a later time and thought he didn't receive the baptism. I'm not saying that is an actual fact, but its what I remember reading. I really like the analogy of being filled with the Holy Spirit -- its a good one. Let me quickly go over the Baptism: When you receive Jesus, the Holy Spirit bapizes you in Him, and at this point you receive the Holy Spirit. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is Jesus baptizing you in the Spirit. The baptism in the Holy Spirit surges spirituality for witnessing. Healing always follows along Evangelism, so there is a connection there. Baptism in the Holy Spirit also provides us with much more and deeper revelation knowlede along with more gifts in operation. You don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to see healing, but when you are they'll be at a different level...watch this now: One can witness and convert someone to Christ without being baptized in the Holy Spirit -- the person being witnessed to receives a new nature, of God Himself, and the Holy Spirit. So, you can't think that one couldn't minister healing unless they were baptized in the Holy Spirit, as healing parralells with salvation. To really drive the point think of the Name of Jesus. EVERY Christian has FULL authority to use the Name of Jesus, whether they understand how to or not makes no difference, they have FULL authority and you don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit for this. You are given the Name at your new birth. It is yours. There is healing power released by the way of the Name. I said all that to say, yes we all ought to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, however being baptized in the Holy Spirit means a lot more than what most people experience. Any Christian can talk to someone about Jesus or stand in faith about a healing. And they SHOULD!!! The baptism and being filled ought to result into ministering the Holy Spirit to others -- there is an enormous difference. Salvation can come in bunches and healing can as well, not to mention it can be instant. Special anointing and gifts necessary for this?? You'll never find it in the NT. You have the nature of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the use of the mighty Name of Jesus. What more would you need to do business?? These typical special anointing topics are not in context with the NT, its an OT mindset. His nature, Spirit, Name and infilling and then many hesitate and are waiting for something special or additional. You already have what is special. The five-fold and special ministries or the gifts of the Holy Spirit are usually tangled up into what I just discussed and leave people a bit hanging. We'll do indepth stuff in the near future. Blessings |
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| Stace4Jesus | Aug 8 2006, 10:28 AM Post #8 |
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At the current, I believe the anointing of the Lord comes in two ways, through the unction that rises from within, and from the anointing, endueing that comes upon. I believe that the Copelands and Hagins teach us of the unctions, and Lake, Curry, Hogan et al teach us of the anointing upon. Lake was already casting out the devil and many were being healed under his ministry when He received the "liguid fire" that flowed through him like a river and opened him up even more to see diseases in a body, tell the doctors, lay hands on the sick to a greater degree and see them healed. Thus, we have the testimonies of God working through him to a great degree. One of the things that Lake did not like was the teaching of some that led to a 'weak' baptism of the Holy Spirit. Under these teachings, people were being baptized and speaking in tongues, yet Lake said it would have been better if they had not been baptized that way because once they received this baptism, they were almost unteachable. They settled for what they had. John Lake was also upset that where ever the Holy Spirit worked in great ways, that men would try to come in and organize things. On another note, how did the disciples go out two by two and heal the sick? They went on the authority of the Word. They were not filled with the Holy Spirit until Jesus rose and then visited with them before He ascended. That is when He breathed on them and they were filled. Yet, He also told them to tarry until they were endued with the Power of the Holy Spirit to be witnesses. Smith Wigglesworth sought after God, as did John Lake, with a passion. Yet, Lake's wife died, why? I have heard it said that if she had stood on the Covenant and the promises that are taught to us (Copeland's Faith Message) she would have not died. Can this be true? I believe it to be true. Lake himself said at an older age that there were many things that he did not know ... but oh the zeal to know the Lord more and His power was steadfast in his hearts desire. Can it be that our ignorance, such as Lake's first wife if this is the case, allow us to be killed? Yes, that is what the Word says. There must be faith. Mueller, another great man of God, in the orphanage would sit the children down at the table, many many children, and wait on the Lord to bring the food. He did all this without a morsal of food in the building. Why? Faith. Lake could put his hand under the microscope with a deadly disease on his hand and allow the doctors to watch the disease die. Why? Power. It is not one or the other, it is both. Rodney Howard Brown, at a young age was baptized in the power of the Holy Spirit, so much so that as he pointed his finger at someone, they would fall under the power of the Lord. He said it was like a pistol in his finger, pointing and shooting the Power of God at people. Yet, the Lord withheld His power from him until he matured in the things of the Lord. The levels of the power are controlled by God. Benny Hinn locked himself away with the Holy Spirit for a year before he began his ministry, building a relationship with the Holy Spirit. His desire was to have the type of relationship with Him that he had witnessed in Kathryn. Kathryn tells us in her book that she gave up her life at the end of a street about 4pm. She told the Lord that if He could use a one as her, then she was willing to give it all up. She set out to preach, yet it was when she began teaching on the Holy Spirit that the miracles began. Faith for healing rises within us when we hear the Word, yet, at the same time while the Word is being taugh, the manifestation of the Holy Spirit will rest upon another whose faith has not risen up within them, and He heals them. Likewise, He rests upon and heals some who are not even seeking to be healed but are seeking for the healing of others. Why would you hit someone in the belly when they come to you to have you lay your hands on them for healing? What could posses a person, Wigs, to do something like that? And, that person rise up from the ground healed? It is called relationship. You got to be hearing the Lord before you go off and hit someone. The disciples walked with Jesus for three years, saw Him die, and then ate breakfast with Him. They had faith. Then, they waited for the power as they were told. The result of faith and power is the beginning of the church. Does everyone have the gift of healing? (manifestation of the Holy Spirit upon a person for supernatural healing) No. There are also gifts of administration. Does everyon have the promise of healing, of laying hand on the sick and the promise they will recover? Yes. Is it true that at some time, the Lord requires that our healing come by faith and not by the gift? Ie.. we are responsible to acquire our healing by faith in God. Yes. Does that stop the gift of healing from overshaddowing us like a hen covers her chicks? No. This is good topic stuff... it is good to discuss these issues and grow in Him. stace |
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| LancashirePOF | Aug 8 2006, 11:02 AM Post #9 |
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hmm....I believe the answer is yes to what I copied in bold print. Friday I will be around a lot lot more... The way you stated that is like saying if you don't have the special anointing, then just follow the things Copelands and them say, because that's our limits. Ask yourself why do people teach that way?? Is it because they are bending the Word toward experiences or are they bending experiences toward the Word. Try to context that in the New Testament and not by what TV preachers or even old books have said or ANY kind of experiences that anyone has discussed. See, I don't defend this because I'm afraid I don't have a calling....He has already called me ( Stace I know you have more than one of the five-fold too), so I'm defending this because its the way I'm seeing it. I'm super short on time with my final exam Thursday, so we'll continue this and in the mean time add to this if you'd like. Bring forth scriptures and what others have said etc. The Holy Spirit dwells IN US and the manifestation upon comes from whithin us. If the manifestation didn't come from whithin us, then the manifestation would come upon without us. It all comes from the Spirit of Christ working through us. The Holy Spirit within must be released outward, to impact this realm, otherwise He is imprisoned in a physical body and is a spirit realm connection only. He is meant to work through us to move into the physical realm, therefore working in both realms. He doesn't work independent of us, but He works through us. If He worked independent from us, all would be saved and healed etc. He works through us and He is the anointing. Think of this: Can the Holy Spirit IN US not have an anointing? Or does He have an anointing? Of course He has an anointing, anything less doesn't fall in context with the Word. Now does His anointing whithin us just want to sit there? No... Anyway, there is some food for thought and you can keep this post going, and I will be back by Friday. I hope some of these different perspectives can be helpful. Blessings. |
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| Stace4Jesus | Aug 8 2006, 12:12 PM Post #10 |
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That is good food for thought and prayer.. see ya friday stace
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| LancashirePOF | Aug 8 2006, 01:01 PM Post #11 |
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He's omni-prescent as well... The best way I can word it at this moment is His working through you brings His presence into manifestation. I will try to word that better Friday, although I like the way that just came out and the Holy Spirit will enhance that. The Name of Jesus plays a role here too. His Name is given to ALL and His Name used in faith brings His presence "Upon" Not just as an unction as you described above, but full manifestation. There wouldn't be an additional anointing for that, otherwise one would have to say I only have partial use of the Name or part of the authority of the Name and we definitely know that isn't true.... Just about a week or so ago I was so busy and had a long distance friend having problems and I lent myself to Jesus and used His Name and demons were cast out of her and she became well from anxiety and depresssion nearly instantly and she gave me a report back a couple of days ago and said "its been 5 days and every bit of it has left" She felt a pressure on the back of her head leave. This illustration is to show you that faith in the Name brings healing and deliverence. She wanted to stand in faith, I told her you can if you want, but this is not a faith agreement, its a ministering of the Holy Spirit through faith in His Name. Now what was best....standing in faith and praying for depression and severe anxiety (was very severe) to go away with a prayer of agreement in faith or ministering the Holy Spirit, in this case it was ministering His Name that brought the manifestation physically. See the Holy Spirit was present in her room, but it was the ministering of the Holy Spirit that made His presencence manifest. I lent myself to Him and He worked through me, my job was simply to let Him flow and work. I really don't like sharing experiences, by I believe this one brings some clarity to what we're discussing. Could faith agreement worked?? yes, but the ministry of the Spirit is the way to go in most situations. Did she need faith? No, her using it created an agreement in this situation. I like the WOF teachings on faith for sure, but there is another area of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, which really connects with the reason one is baptized in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourself filled....yes, for sure -- different topic. Can anywone do this. If in Christ and baptized In the Holy Spirit....yes, but one will NEVER rise about the level they put limitations. Anyway hope this helps. Blessings. |
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| Stace4Jesus | Aug 8 2006, 02:31 PM Post #12 |
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I got this funny feeling that we are talking the same 'things' but using different terms or something. Perhaps if we slow down and take it step by step.. but... you get to your study..
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| LancashirePOF | Aug 8 2006, 02:48 PM Post #13 |
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Yeah, I think we are talking about the same things...I'm just posting away in case someone else stumbles across this thread -- its not really directed to you etc. Actually the thread is a bit too long now and I'll open a new topic soon.... Yes let me get back...lator Gator. |
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| TheGloryisHere | Aug 8 2006, 03:56 PM Post #14 |
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You two talked a bunch after this post!! I'm responding to this one before I've read the rest of them. Quote: You don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to see healing, but when you are they'll be at a different level...watch this now: One can witness and convert someone to Christ without being baptized in the Holy Spirit -- the person being witnessed to receives a new nature, of God Himself, and the Holy Spirit. So, you can't think that one couldn't minister healing unless they were baptized in the Holy Spirit, as healing parralells with salvation. To really drive the point think of the Name of Jesus. EVERY Christian has FULL authority to use the Name of Jesus, whether they understand how to or not makes no difference, they have FULL authority and you don't need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit for this. You are given the Name at your new birth. It is yours. There is healing power released by the way of the Name. I'll concede your point on this, since healing is offered as a part of the healing package. But, the part about we don't needs any anointings or even the infilling of the Holy Spirit will only confuse a Baptis and make them think, see there, I don't need the Holy Spirit, or no more of the Holy Spirit than what I have. I think that's dangerous to teach, that we don't need any special anointings. Jesus had special anointings and arent' we supposed to copy Him and be like Him?? You decide. It is true that before the Holy Spirit was sent to the Earth, the disciples were given the power only using the name of Jesus, to heal the sick, and to cast out devils. But, after the Holy Spirit came, then we are expected to go on to more gifts and anointings. Word of wisdom, word of knowledge, gifts of healings, gifts of miracles is something you might want to read in the NT. It is there. Go look. It takes special anointings to operate in those. No one has ever operated in those gifts without having the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Glory |
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| TheGloryisHere | Aug 8 2006, 04:05 PM Post #15 |
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Stace wrote: Yet, He also told them to tarry until they were endued with the Power of the Holy Spirit to be witnesses. Power to do what? Jesus said power to witness. Yet we can witness to a small degree before we are endued with that power. But, to witness to a great degree and have a greater degree of anointing, we must be filled and endued with that power of the Holy Spirit. Besides, the disciples had hardly any understanding of the word of God until they will filled up with the Holy Spirit. Babies can only do so much witnessing and healing without the power of the Holy Spirit, using only the Name. There is more power when you combine the power and the fire of the Holy Spirit with The Name of Jesus. I didn't have revelations of the word of God until the Holy Spirit took over my life. |
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| LancashirePOF | Aug 8 2006, 09:35 PM Post #16 |
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I never said you don't need the anointing. I said you have the anointing dwelling in you. This ia what I said " Think of this: Can the Holy Spirit IN US not have an anointing? Or does He have an anointing? Of course He has an anointing, anything less doesn't fall in context with the Word. Now does His anointing whithin us just want to sit there? No..."
That's saying we have grown out of using the Name of Jesus and its time to move on. The Name of Jesus is for you now.... You pray in the Name now, you pray for others in the Name as well. The areas you mentioned are not "instead of", but "In addition too" The Name of Jesus is defintely given to us in Christ now. I look forward to opening a new thread and comment deeper on Friday. Glory, I truly love and enjoy your input.... ps: Ask lots of questions and share your perspective as we'll continue with this
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| Stace4Jesus | Aug 9 2006, 07:58 AM Post #17 |
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To help each other grow deeper into the understandings of the things of God, we add to one another. That glorifies the Lord. One/some understand the crust, one/some understand the filling, and one/some understand the topping. Then we have the whole pie. |
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| TheGloryisHere | Aug 9 2006, 08:28 PM Post #18 |
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I think Lanshire, you spend entirly too much time trying to figure this out in your head, that you end up diluting the revelation to something you can brainiac. You can't learn this in your head. I can also tell you've been reading E.W Kenyons stuff and he has confused you into thinking we dont' need faith, just the name. He is wrong on that account. All through the word you will find faith more than anything else. Just flow with the Holy Spirit and quit over thinking everthing so much, and you will grow up in the Lord a lot faster. Be teachable. The name of Jesus wont' work without the anointing. Just like having a Bible wont' do anything for you if you don't belong to Jesus. |
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| Stace4Jesus | Aug 9 2006, 08:44 PM Post #19 |
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Easy there... Let's walk in love and not with things that can ruffle feathers. Let's add one to another and learn together. Personal opinions of another's study material and content might not be what we are studying at the time, but that does not mean it is not where the Lord wants Robert to be. The Word exhorts us to all be teachable. shalom stace |
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| LancashirePOF | Aug 10 2006, 12:12 AM Post #20 |
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Glory, This is the Lords message board and He desires that we discuss things that can lead to edification. I don't mind if you disagree, but please include a previous quote, because so far all you've done is disagreed and totally misquoted me -- not one has been correct. Don't misunderstand me, I'm totally cool about things and really look forward to sharing future postings. You needed to know this and now hopefully we can move on. Blessings... Love In Christ, Robert |
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8:24 AM Nov 28