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Rafa's one more season?
Topic Started: Jan 3 2008, 02:35 PM (91 Views)
77 sides of chrome Liverpool
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League Two
Is it unfair or unrealistic to suggest Rafa deserves one more season. I ask this as a disscussion item not as a firmly held belief.
As Liverpool supporters we dont so much demand success rather we expect it from a club with such a rich history, tradition and bulging trophy cabinet. The inconsistancey that has plauged our Prem form seems to show no signs of going soon.This is despite our unbeaten start to the season which has been punctuated with indifferent displays resulting in draws and bewildered supporters.
Despite new costly faces and a varried team selection the chemistry which delivers a title chasing team has eluded us.Everyone from the media, former players and supporters have their own theory as to why we have failed for so many years. It is easy to blame Rafa for team selection, tactics,motivation and transfers and use as the stick to beat him with. Is it hard for us to realise or admit that we are not as good as the other top teams and on certain days any team in the Prem.
We all want answers for our current position and form and although we do not have a reputation of knee jerking sackings perhaps some of you are starting to question if Rafa can take us further. You only have to look at the bar codes to see how choosing the right man for the right job is not an easy excerise. When you factor in the financial implications and new owners who understand a balance sheet rather than football itself perhaps Rafa's postion is not as easy to understand .
Most supporters would like overnight success but it can disapear as easily as it came. To have sustained success takes time and patience and as supporters some are better in understanding it than others. The question you have ask who would replace Rafa? At this point I cannot not think of one replacement who would do a better job in the same circumstances.
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Berethorn Liverpool
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Mister B-man
No.

Rafa is as good a manager as he ever was, but sometimes a manager can lose the plot and is unable to get it back. The club needs a fresh perspective. Rafa has too many hoodoos against too many clubs and managers in the Prem. I don't think he wants a fat transfer budget because he necessarily needs it, but rather as a vote of confidence in him and his methods. I don't think he's gonna get it.

Unless the owners publically back Rafa with £60m to spend in summer, or he wins an FAC/CL double, I find it hard to see HOW he can remain in charge. Last night felt a pivotal result to me. It carried a weight that went far beyond the scoreline.
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77 sides of chrome Liverpool
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so who do you think should replace Rafa?????????
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definitelynotmowipromise
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77 sides of chrome
Jan 3 2008, 07:37 PM
so who do you think should replace Rafa?????????

Bryan Robson. Heard it here first.
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chilli sauce Liverpool
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there is no one that can replace him at the moment i dont think. everyone is talking about jose, but you need to remember that although he has a winning mentaility and builds good team spirit (although that went tits up in the end) he more or less inherited rianieri's team. he went out and bought some top players drogba and essien to name some, but they were gimme's he also bought a lot of dross. he had an enormous war chest and frankly never built on the domination his early successes gave him. i am not sure he would take us any further, especially given our limited funds. i say stick with rafa, he needs to learn humility and that he not always makes the best choices, but i am still happy with him overall.
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Berethorn Liverpool
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chilli sauce
Jan 3 2008, 08:45 PM
there is no one that can replace him at the moment i dont think. everyone is talking about jose, but you need to remember that although he has a winning mentaility and builds good team spirit (although that went tits up in the end) he more or less inherited rianieri's team. he went out and bought some top players drogba and essien to name some, but they were gimme's he also bought a lot of dross. he had an enormous war chest and frankly never built on the domination his early successes gave him. i am not sure he would take us any further, especially given our limited funds. i say stick with rafa, he needs to learn humility and that he not always makes the best choices, but i am still happy with him overall.

I agree with some of what you're saying but I would like to venture a few points.

First I think we have a title winning team now. It's the mentality that is wrong; we are critically short of belief. Fresh thinking may be all that we need. Even if we are weak in some key areas our spine is strong. I don't think a new, quality manager, like Jose (or Lippi? Is he still available?) would need to add much to the team. And really, would it matter if such a choice was only a short term measure as long as it won us a title?

My chief concern in losing Rafa is the damage it could do to the Spanish contingent of players, but with a sensible, quality choice I think we could settle those nerves. Fact is we just bought a world class striker but we're scrapping it out with Citeh and Pompey for fourth. Something's broke and I honestly doubt Rafa can fix it.

I don't want him to go. Like you I wish he would not be so damned stubborn. But he's not gonna change, which is why I fear Pako left. I don't like speculating on how much input Pako had and what impact his leaving might have had, but perhaps he was a moderating influence in Rafa's tactical thinking, and indeed provided the impetus for some of Rafa's better decisions.

In all fairness I did not mind Rafa's starting line up last night; on paper we had a lot of attacking threat and Torres is used to the lone striker role. My beef with Rafa - as always - is that he waits far too long to make subs when his Plan A clearly isn't working. I am probably wrong on this because this is the one that obviously stands out the most, but the time Rafa brought Didi on at half time in the CL final is one of only a handful of masterstroke substitutions I remember him making.

Rafa is inflexible and overcautious. I don't think that is a combination that can be effective in the Prem.
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starman Liverpool
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Space is big, No i mean really hugely big
When Houiller was asked to stepped down the club and searched for a replacement months before and unless you were / are into other countries managers Rafa was an unknown.
So Rafa is asked to step down after four years - also Parry would leave IMO (which will not help the immediate runing of the club), and what happens the new broom arrives - he has to been given the same chance again with little money (but a better squad).
We cannot hope to win the ECL again in the managers first season - and so the cycle goes around again.
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Berethorn Liverpool
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starman
Jan 4 2008, 08:42 PM
When Houiller was asked to stepped down the club and searched for a replacement months before and unless you were / are into other countries managers Rafa was an unknown.
So Rafa is asked to step down after four years - also Parry would leave IMO (which will not help the immediate runing of the club), and what happens the new broom arrives - he has to been given the same chance again with little money (but a better squad).
We cannot hope to win the ECL again in the managers first season - and so the cycle goes around again.

Who says Parry steps down? His singular lack of support for Rafa this season and his repeated silences during the critical weeks in the run up to the Utd game tell me all I need to know about whose side he is on.

I don't want to see the disruption at the club anymore than you do. If we good get a really good backroom staffer in - somebody like McAllister or even getting Sammy Lee back - a guy who knows how it is and can really motivate the players and give them their fire back, I'll be made up for Rafa to stay.

Bottom line is he ain't a motivational manager and he's not a man manager like Mourhino is. Only today he's in the paper essentially saying: "Something's wrong, I don't know what, and I don't know how to fix it." What kind of signal does that send out to our fans, players and rivals?

It tells me that the problem lies with Rafa, that he himself is missing a key skill necessary to turn this situation around.
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rafasredangel Liverpool
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I think if we get rid of Rafa too soon then we'll end up like Newcastle. Forever chopping and changing manages, and never achieving our ultimate aim, the Prem.

I think we should stick with Rafa, if at the end of next season we are still 20plus points of the title. Fine get rid of him then.

I just worry that knee-jerk reactionaries will get our best manager in a generation. :no"
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starman Liverpool
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Space is big, No i mean really hugely big
His singular lack of support for Rafa this season and his repeated silences during the critical weeks in the run up to the Utd game tell me all I need to know about whose side he is on.

I take it you say that because he never ran to the papers - the papers he did not run to reported he did not back Rafa. i have no problem with him being not in the papers

somebody like McAllister or even getting Sammy Lee back
100% agree

Something's wrong, I don't know what, and I don't know how to fix it

The quote is that he is puzzled why we make one mistake they score - we have 8 -11 shots on target and get one goal.
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Trig
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Pain in the arse !!!!!

The key to the old Liverpools success was there continuity of manager handed don through the bootroom from manager to manager,this part of Liverpools structure has never been replaced and therefore imo Rafa needs to stay and build some kind of structure or without doubt you will follow newki,
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rafasredangel Liverpool
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Trig
Jan 4 2008, 08:16 PM
The key to the old Liverpools success was there continuity of manager handed don through the bootroom from manager to manager,this part of Liverpools structure has never been replaced and therefore imo Rafa needs to stay and build some kind of structure or without doubt you will follow newki,

That what I'm worried about Trig/RB - whatever your name is now. :ale:
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Trig
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Pain in the arse !!!!!

rafasredangel
Jan 4 2008, 10:19 PM
Trig
Jan 4 2008, 08:16 PM
The key to the old Liverpools success was there continuity of manager handed don through the bootroom from manager to manager,this part of Liverpools structure has never been replaced and therefore imo Rafa needs to stay and build some kind of structure or without doubt you will follow newki,

That what I'm worried about Trig/RB - whatever your name is now. :ale:

Cheeky :nerner: a change is as good as a rest they say :chill: only done it to please some of your scouse mates :lol: and the name is Trig :shrug: Formerly Rover Blue (on Fm) and WR on here :rolleyes: but i will soon revert back to WR.. :lmao:
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Berethorn Liverpool
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starman
Jan 4 2008, 09:12 PM
His singular lack of support for Rafa this season and his repeated silences during the critical weeks in the run up to the Utd game tell me all I need to know about whose side he is on.

I take it you say that because he never ran to the papers - the papers he did not run to reported he did not back Rafa. i have no problem with him being not in the papers

somebody like McAllister or even getting Sammy Lee back
100% agree

Something's wrong, I don't know what, and I don't know how to fix it

The quote is that he is puzzled why we make one mistake they score - we have 8 -11 shots on target and get one goal.

But this is a problem Rafa's Liverpool has suffered with almost from day one: bags of possession and never getting the result it deserves. It's especially apparent against the big three.

Clearly some form of tactical change is in order but if Rafa doesn't know what that change could be then he needs a new right hand man with new ideas.

As for Parry, sorry but I'm not convinced. He only came out and said "I was on Rafa's side all along!" after the situation had blown over, and I just find the timing extremely suspicious.
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