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The Cabal to meet this week
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Topic Started: Jan 7 2008, 11:42 AM (235 Views)
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El Nino
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Jan 7 2008, 08:56 PM
Post #21
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Unregistered
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- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:54 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:47 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:43 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:36 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:21 PM
The problem with the "we have more points than last season" argument is that it becomes irrelevant when the teams above us raise the bar.
It doesn't matter if we have more points than last season if Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea all do as well.
This is the thing - we started off a fair way behind the other big 3 teams in the league. Only now have we truly started to bring in a couple of genuine quality players, and all the time we're raising our game, the bar is also going up as teams like Man Utd and Chelsea who had a start on us to begin with, strengthen even further.
Arsenal are an exception for me, as they've adopted a different, long-term strategy over 10 years or however long Wenger has been in charge, we don't have the time for that now.
Until our rate of improvement gets faster than the rate at which the bar is rising, we'll struggle - which is why we need to buy big, and buy top quality, and that's why the likes of Kuyt, Kewell, Sami, Sissoko and Voronin simply won't do anymore.
yet arsenal,chelsea and man utd allhave averag players in their sqaud ,getting rid of all those and replacing them willmean a whole new line up guarentee immediate success - prefer rafa does it a bit more smoothly .
The point is that with players of the calibre of those I listed, we won't close the gap. We have ground to make up and twatting about wasting time with dross like that will ensure we stay out of contention. How many more years are you prepared to wait? Because I'm sick of waiting and it being our year next year... next year... next year...
and thats your opinion . Apart from momo and voronin i think the others can still do a job for liverpool for this season and maybe even next season . i have waited long enough and will continue to wait , my supporting the club isnt timescale dependant on when they will win the title etc , would still be positive and support them no matter what wether they be in the conference or winning the title year in year out , that wont change .
Good for you, whereas I'll be off supporting Arsenal in May...
:doh: :rolleyes: Well we're 12 points off the pace in January, it's not looking like those players will bridge the gap so my opinion looks pretty well backed up right now. Not negativity, it's realism based on what I've been watching this season. There are numerous other fans on this site who think the same thing. No blind optimism for them either - realism. Combine that with the fact that those players have shown time and again in recent games that they're not up to it and it's quite clear they're not good enough to anyone who has any clue what a good footballer looks like. I wonder how many of the Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea fans would take any of those players? Don't worry, I'll have the answer already: not one. Why not? Because... wait for it..... they're not good enough.
:shock:
and thats your opinion - well done , doesnt mean its any better than mine .
you say prepared to wait ? wait for what ?
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The Nutmeg King
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Jan 7 2008, 08:58 PM
Post #22
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Unregistered
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- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:56 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:54 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:47 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:43 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:36 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:21 PM
The problem with the "we have more points than last season" argument is that it becomes irrelevant when the teams above us raise the bar.
It doesn't matter if we have more points than last season if Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea all do as well.
This is the thing - we started off a fair way behind the other big 3 teams in the league. Only now have we truly started to bring in a couple of genuine quality players, and all the time we're raising our game, the bar is also going up as teams like Man Utd and Chelsea who had a start on us to begin with, strengthen even further.
Arsenal are an exception for me, as they've adopted a different, long-term strategy over 10 years or however long Wenger has been in charge, we don't have the time for that now.
Until our rate of improvement gets faster than the rate at which the bar is rising, we'll struggle - which is why we need to buy big, and buy top quality, and that's why the likes of Kuyt, Kewell, Sami, Sissoko and Voronin simply won't do anymore.
yet arsenal,chelsea and man utd allhave averag players in their sqaud ,getting rid of all those and replacing them willmean a whole new line up guarentee immediate success - prefer rafa does it a bit more smoothly .
The point is that with players of the calibre of those I listed, we won't close the gap. We have ground to make up and twatting about wasting time with dross like that will ensure we stay out of contention. How many more years are you prepared to wait? Because I'm sick of waiting and it being our year next year... next year... next year...
and thats your opinion . Apart from momo and voronin i think the others can still do a job for liverpool for this season and maybe even next season . i have waited long enough and will continue to wait , my supporting the club isnt timescale dependant on when they will win the title etc , would still be positive and support them no matter what wether they be in the conference or winning the title year in year out , that wont change .
Good for you, whereas I'll be off supporting Arsenal in May...
:doh: :rolleyes: Well we're 12 points off the pace in January, it's not looking like those players will bridge the gap so my opinion looks pretty well backed up right now. Not negativity, it's realism based on what I've been watching this season. There are numerous other fans on this site who think the same thing. No blind optimism for them either - realism. Combine that with the fact that those players have shown time and again in recent games that they're not up to it and it's quite clear they're not good enough to anyone who has any clue what a good footballer looks like. I wonder how many of the Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea fans would take any of those players? Don't worry, I'll have the answer already: not one. Why not? Because... wait for it..... they're not good enough.
:shock:
and thats your opinion - well done , doesnt mean its any better than mine . you say prepared to wait ? wait for what ?
The "that's your opinion, well done" shite is getting very tiresome. The last bastion of somebody who has no argument.
Wait for the league title. Obviously.
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El Nino
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Jan 7 2008, 09:03 PM
Post #23
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Unregistered
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- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:58 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:56 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:54 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:47 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:43 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:36 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:21 PM
The problem with the "we have more points than last season" argument is that it becomes irrelevant when the teams above us raise the bar.
It doesn't matter if we have more points than last season if Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea all do as well.
This is the thing - we started off a fair way behind the other big 3 teams in the league. Only now have we truly started to bring in a couple of genuine quality players, and all the time we're raising our game, the bar is also going up as teams like Man Utd and Chelsea who had a start on us to begin with, strengthen even further.
Arsenal are an exception for me, as they've adopted a different, long-term strategy over 10 years or however long Wenger has been in charge, we don't have the time for that now.
Until our rate of improvement gets faster than the rate at which the bar is rising, we'll struggle - which is why we need to buy big, and buy top quality, and that's why the likes of Kuyt, Kewell, Sami, Sissoko and Voronin simply won't do anymore.
yet arsenal,chelsea and man utd allhave averag players in their sqaud ,getting rid of all those and replacing them willmean a whole new line up guarentee immediate success - prefer rafa does it a bit more smoothly .
The point is that with players of the calibre of those I listed, we won't close the gap. We have ground to make up and twatting about wasting time with dross like that will ensure we stay out of contention. How many more years are you prepared to wait? Because I'm sick of waiting and it being our year next year... next year... next year...
and thats your opinion . Apart from momo and voronin i think the others can still do a job for liverpool for this season and maybe even next season . i have waited long enough and will continue to wait , my supporting the club isnt timescale dependant on when they will win the title etc , would still be positive and support them no matter what wether they be in the conference or winning the title year in year out , that wont change .
Good for you, whereas I'll be off supporting Arsenal in May...
:doh: :rolleyes: Well we're 12 points off the pace in January, it's not looking like those players will bridge the gap so my opinion looks pretty well backed up right now. Not negativity, it's realism based on what I've been watching this season. There are numerous other fans on this site who think the same thing. No blind optimism for them either - realism. Combine that with the fact that those players have shown time and again in recent games that they're not up to it and it's quite clear they're not good enough to anyone who has any clue what a good footballer looks like. I wonder how many of the Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea fans would take any of those players? Don't worry, I'll have the answer already: not one. Why not? Because... wait for it..... they're not good enough.
:shock:
and thats your opinion - well done , doesnt mean its any better than mine . you say prepared to wait ? wait for what ?
The "that's your opinion, well done" shite is getting very tiresome. The last bastion of somebody who has no argument. Wait for the league title. Obviously.
well that is what it boils down to at the end of the day - peoples opinion
and i will wait for as long as it takes to win the title or cl or fa cp .
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The Nutmeg King
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Jan 7 2008, 09:13 PM
Post #24
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Unregistered
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- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 10:03 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:58 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:56 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:54 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:47 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:43 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:36 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:21 PM
The problem with the "we have more points than last season" argument is that it becomes irrelevant when the teams above us raise the bar.
It doesn't matter if we have more points than last season if Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea all do as well.
This is the thing - we started off a fair way behind the other big 3 teams in the league. Only now have we truly started to bring in a couple of genuine quality players, and all the time we're raising our game, the bar is also going up as teams like Man Utd and Chelsea who had a start on us to begin with, strengthen even further.
Arsenal are an exception for me, as they've adopted a different, long-term strategy over 10 years or however long Wenger has been in charge, we don't have the time for that now.
Until our rate of improvement gets faster than the rate at which the bar is rising, we'll struggle - which is why we need to buy big, and buy top quality, and that's why the likes of Kuyt, Kewell, Sami, Sissoko and Voronin simply won't do anymore.
yet arsenal,chelsea and man utd allhave averag players in their sqaud ,getting rid of all those and replacing them willmean a whole new line up guarentee immediate success - prefer rafa does it a bit more smoothly .
The point is that with players of the calibre of those I listed, we won't close the gap. We have ground to make up and twatting about wasting time with dross like that will ensure we stay out of contention. How many more years are you prepared to wait? Because I'm sick of waiting and it being our year next year... next year... next year...
and thats your opinion . Apart from momo and voronin i think the others can still do a job for liverpool for this season and maybe even next season . i have waited long enough and will continue to wait , my supporting the club isnt timescale dependant on when they will win the title etc , would still be positive and support them no matter what wether they be in the conference or winning the title year in year out , that wont change .
Good for you, whereas I'll be off supporting Arsenal in May...
:doh: :rolleyes: Well we're 12 points off the pace in January, it's not looking like those players will bridge the gap so my opinion looks pretty well backed up right now. Not negativity, it's realism based on what I've been watching this season. There are numerous other fans on this site who think the same thing. No blind optimism for them either - realism. Combine that with the fact that those players have shown time and again in recent games that they're not up to it and it's quite clear they're not good enough to anyone who has any clue what a good footballer looks like. I wonder how many of the Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea fans would take any of those players? Don't worry, I'll have the answer already: not one. Why not? Because... wait for it..... they're not good enough.
:shock:
and thats your opinion - well done , doesnt mean its any better than mine . you say prepared to wait ? wait for what ?
The "that's your opinion, well done" shite is getting very tiresome. The last bastion of somebody who has no argument. Wait for the league title. Obviously.
well that is what it boils down to at the end of the day - peoples opinion and i will wait for as long as it takes to win the title or cl or fa cp .
And some people's opinions are based on fact and can change with what they see and hear, the realism of a situation - and some people's opinions are based in defiant, blind, mindless, sheep-like optimism purely because they are a Liverpool fan and for no other reason.
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El Nino
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Jan 7 2008, 09:18 PM
Post #25
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Unregistered
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- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 09:13 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 10:03 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:58 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:56 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:54 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:47 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:43 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 09:36 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 08:21 PM
The problem with the "we have more points than last season" argument is that it becomes irrelevant when the teams above us raise the bar.
It doesn't matter if we have more points than last season if Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea all do as well.
This is the thing - we started off a fair way behind the other big 3 teams in the league. Only now have we truly started to bring in a couple of genuine quality players, and all the time we're raising our game, the bar is also going up as teams like Man Utd and Chelsea who had a start on us to begin with, strengthen even further.
Arsenal are an exception for me, as they've adopted a different, long-term strategy over 10 years or however long Wenger has been in charge, we don't have the time for that now.
Until our rate of improvement gets faster than the rate at which the bar is rising, we'll struggle - which is why we need to buy big, and buy top quality, and that's why the likes of Kuyt, Kewell, Sami, Sissoko and Voronin simply won't do anymore.
yet arsenal,chelsea and man utd allhave averag players in their sqaud ,getting rid of all those and replacing them willmean a whole new line up guarentee immediate success - prefer rafa does it a bit more smoothly .
The point is that with players of the calibre of those I listed, we won't close the gap. We have ground to make up and twatting about wasting time with dross like that will ensure we stay out of contention. How many more years are you prepared to wait? Because I'm sick of waiting and it being our year next year... next year... next year...
and thats your opinion . Apart from momo and voronin i think the others can still do a job for liverpool for this season and maybe even next season . i have waited long enough and will continue to wait , my supporting the club isnt timescale dependant on when they will win the title etc , would still be positive and support them no matter what wether they be in the conference or winning the title year in year out , that wont change .
Good for you, whereas I'll be off supporting Arsenal in May...
:doh: :rolleyes: Well we're 12 points off the pace in January, it's not looking like those players will bridge the gap so my opinion looks pretty well backed up right now. Not negativity, it's realism based on what I've been watching this season. There are numerous other fans on this site who think the same thing. No blind optimism for them either - realism. Combine that with the fact that those players have shown time and again in recent games that they're not up to it and it's quite clear they're not good enough to anyone who has any clue what a good footballer looks like. I wonder how many of the Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea fans would take any of those players? Don't worry, I'll have the answer already: not one. Why not? Because... wait for it..... they're not good enough.
:shock:
and thats your opinion - well done , doesnt mean its any better than mine . you say prepared to wait ? wait for what ?
The "that's your opinion, well done" shite is getting very tiresome. The last bastion of somebody who has no argument. Wait for the league title. Obviously.
well that is what it boils down to at the end of the day - peoples opinion and i will wait for as long as it takes to win the title or cl or fa cp .
And some people's opinions are based on fact and can change with what they see and hear, the realism of a situation - and some people's opinions are based in defiant, blind, mindless, sheep-like optimism purely because they are a Liverpool fan and for no other reason.
people dont always things the same as you - they can see things differently and will choose to do so without them being questioned by the likes of yourself . you dont have the devine right on what peoples opinions should be , for all you know mine and d=from what i have seen others people opinion maybe from what they see through their eyes and have formed an opinion of their own and are entitled to do so . if you dont agree with that oh well .
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The Nutmeg King
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Jan 7 2008, 09:19 PM
Post #26
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Unregistered
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Whatever Phil, back to your banal old "your opinion isn't worth more than mine" shite...
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El Nino
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Jan 7 2008, 09:23 PM
Post #27
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Unregistered
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- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 09:19 PM
Whatever Phil, back to your banal old "your opinion isn't worth more than mine" shite...
:lmao:
oh well
im sure now you will resort to the old last post stuff as well . :voddie:
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The Nutmeg King
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Jan 7 2008, 09:27 PM
Post #28
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Unregistered
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- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 10:23 PM
- The Nutmeg King
- Jan 7 2008, 09:19 PM
Whatever Phil, back to your banal old "your opinion isn't worth more than mine" shite... :lmao: oh well im sure now you will resort to the old last post stuff as well . :voddie:
Whine.
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denisirwinsbarmyarmy
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Jan 7 2008, 09:45 PM
Post #29
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PREMIER LEAGUE & EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS 07/08
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Let's not make this into a petty personal disagreement lads.
I think what TNK is saying is mirrored by a lot of Liverpool fans not only on this board but from what I've heard personally. What I cannot understand is Benitez's very public frustrations that he obviously has with the board regarding a lack of money being made available. All the big 4 have spent big over the years and Liverpool are no exception. Has he not had his chance in the transfer market?
Regarding an earlier post on United's spending and the funds that we weren't supposed to get from the Glazers; the Glazer's have yet to put their hands in their pockets and give United their own cash. The money we've had to spend is a combination of player sales (I think United have sold more players over the last two seasons than they did in the past 5 or 6) plus the budgeted transfer fund given to Fergie every calender year. That's a big reason why we don't spend money in January because it all goes out in the Summer.
El Nino, there's nothing wrong with staying positive and if you had the same amount of points but were second I'd say you were right to believe. The thing is you've now got to hope that not 1 or 2 but 3 teams continually drop points in the final half of the season and with Liverpool still to visit these 3 teams it's going to be difficult to say the least.
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The Nutmeg King
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Jan 7 2008, 09:49 PM
Post #30
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Unregistered
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- denisirwinsbarmyarmy
- Jan 7 2008, 10:45 PM
Let's not make this into a petty personal disagreement lads.
I think what TNK is saying is mirrored by a lot of Liverpool fans not only on this board but from what I've heard personally. What I cannot understand is Benitez's very public frustrations that he obviously has with the board regarding a lack of money being made available. All the big 4 have spent big over the years and Liverpool are no exception. Has he not had his chance in the transfer market?
Regarding an earlier post on United's spending and the funds that we weren't supposed to get from the Glazers; the Glazer's have yet to put their hands in their pockets and give United their own cash. The money we've had to spend is a combination of player sales (I think United have sold more players over the last two seasons than they did in the past 5 or 6) plus the budgeted transfer fund given to Fergie every calender year. That's a big reason why we don't spend money in January because it all goes out in the Summer.
El Nino, there's nothing wrong with staying positive and if you had the same amount of points but were second I'd say you were right to believe. The thing is you've now got to hope that not 1 or 2 but 3 teams continually drop points in the final half of the season and with Liverpool still to visit these 3 teams it's going to be difficult to say the least.
Great post and the key point is the one about all 3 teams dropping points and us picking them up when they do - it simply isn't going to happen.
So we're out. Not mathematically, but realistically.
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El Nino
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Jan 7 2008, 09:51 PM
Post #31
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Unregistered
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- denisirwinsbarmyarmy
- Jan 7 2008, 09:45 PM
Let's not make this into a petty personal disagreement lads.
I think what TNK is saying is mirrored by a lot of Liverpool fans not only on this board but from what I've heard personally. What I cannot understand is Benitez's very public frustrations that he obviously has with the board regarding a lack of money being made available. All the big 4 have spent big over the years and Liverpool are no exception. Has he not had his chance in the transfer market?
Regarding an earlier post on United's spending and the funds that we weren't supposed to get from the Glazers; the Glazer's have yet to put their hands in their pockets and give United their own cash. The money we've had to spend is a combination of player sales (I think United have sold more players over the last two seasons than they did in the past 5 or 6) plus the budgeted transfer fund given to Fergie every calender year. That's a big reason why we don't spend money in January because it all goes out in the Summer.
El Nino, there's nothing wrong with staying positive and if you had the same amount of points but were second I'd say you were right to believe. The thing is you've now got to hope that not 1 or 2 but 3 teams continually drop points in the final half of the season and with Liverpool still to visit these 3 teams it's going to be difficult to say the least.
thats cool mate , never said it was going to be easy mate but will continue in a positive frame of mind until the end , always been this way .
I think the way utd do it with buying everyone in the summer is a better way of doing things ,
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denisirwinsbarmyarmy
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Jan 7 2008, 09:57 PM
Post #32
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PREMIER LEAGUE & EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS 07/08
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- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 10:51 PM
I think the way utd do it with buying everyone in the summer is a better way of doing things ,
The problem with buying players in January is them having to bed into a team halfway through the season. I always think it's best to let them have their pre season training "with the lads" and to adapt to the way of life in whatever area they've moved to.
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El Nino
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Jan 7 2008, 10:00 PM
Post #33
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Unregistered
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- denisirwinsbarmyarmy
- Jan 7 2008, 09:57 PM
- El Nino
- Jan 7 2008, 10:51 PM
I think the way utd do it with buying everyone in the summer is a better way of doing things ,
The problem with buying players in January is them having to bed into a team halfway through the season. I always think it's best to let them have their pre season training "with the lads" and to adapt to the way of life in whatever area they've moved to.
yeah i cant remember many jan signings coming in and doing well apart from mascher and think he was used to the country just not as much the prem . but remember what vidic and evra were like and agger didnt really get going until the following season .
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redscouser
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Jan 8 2008, 03:09 AM
Post #34
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Championship
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I would personally like Rafa to stay. I like what he is trying to build, but he needs some help. Therefore, I'd also quite like it if these 2 tight fisted yankee feckers gave him some cash to do what is necessary.
The fact remains that whilst we may have a numerically superior squad to our competitors - in terms of the quality it is sadly lacking.
I was about to post something along the lines of us being able to make a good first eleven, but the sad reality is even that it isn't as good as our competitors.
We have no specialist wingers capable of delivering what we need (neither Kewell nor Pennant are capable of running past defences and getting in behind). We also have only the one quality striker in Torres. Crouchie does a job, but I'm not convinced the 2 can work together. The one I'd really like to see partner him is Babel, but he's too busy covering the deficincies at left wing.
True, we've got a superb central midfield (with the exception of Oh no Sissoko) and defensively we only really lack a CB - possibly not if and when Skrtil joins.
The issue is that Rafa has had to get second best buys in previous seasons because we couldn't compete financially. What he has managed to do with them convinces me he can mould a winning formula if he has the right amount of funding.
We can hope in vain as much as we want, but that will not win us what we all really want. We are out of it yet again with half the season still to go. There is a slight possibility that one of our rivals will drop a number of points, but for all 3???? Cloud cuckoo land if ever I've heard it. You also have to add City to the list as they are showing no signs of dropping off as yet.
The not quite good enoughs need to depart:
Aurelio Riise Sissoko Kewell Pennant Benayoun Kuyt Voronin
The time for false sentiment is over - we need to start getting the right players with the right mentality. If that is to happen any time soon, the only way to do it is with the funding. Kepp on with the youth buying because that should pay the dividends in a few years time, but for now - GIVE US THE MONEY.
That is what this meeting needs to discuss - supporting the manager in the right way and not undermining him.
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chilli sauce
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Jan 8 2008, 09:49 AM
Post #35
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Premier League
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- denisirwinsbarmyarmy
- Jan 7 2008, 09:57 PM
I always think it's best to let them have their pre season training "with the lads" and to adapt to the way of life in whatever area they've moved to.
christmas parties :smackbum:
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Berethorn
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Jan 8 2008, 08:37 PM
Post #36
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Mister B-man
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I don't believe our team is lacking. We should be far closer than we are. Every team Rafa has fielded from Reading to Luton has been more than capable of delivering the goods.
Why it hasn't worked I don't know, but it's not down to luck. You can argue formations (I don't personally; my chief gripe has been the subs) but really it is player attitude. I don't put that down to rotation either, because the players - Momo aside - know they're all going to get a fair crack.
I think we need someone on the backroom staff to give the players a good beating and tell them to go out their and play for their f*cking shirt.
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redscouser
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Jan 10 2008, 04:01 PM
Post #37
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Championship
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- Berethorn
- Jan 8 2008, 09:37 PM
I don't believe our team is lacking. We should be far closer than we are. Every team Rafa has fielded from Reading to Luton has been more than capable of delivering the goods.
Why it hasn't worked I don't know, but it's not down to luck. You can argue formations (I don't personally; my chief gripe has been the subs) but really it is player attitude. I don't put that down to rotation either, because the players - Momo aside - know they're all going to get a fair crack.
I think we need someone on the backroom staff to give the players a good beating and tell them to go out their and play for their f*cking shirt.
If it takes someone to have to go and tell them to buck up, then they are not the right players to have in the first place.
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