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*updates!* Rebuilding The 3sge For Boost; Killed it standard, Stronger Round 2!
Topic Started: Feb 7 2009, 03:19 PM (4,569 Views)
Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Might have found me a project short block!

Just waiting for a price on it :P
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alimac
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Canterbury, NZ
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Get in touch with Corey. I'm pretty sure he used to run machined SW20 pistons in his.
Yellow RS200z 6MT
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madaltezza
Sleeper
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so what let go have you striped the motor down yet i have some stock pistons laying around. ive acl race bearings in my motor they werent that badly priced
i also have a crank laying around if you carnk is to stuffed to use again pm me if you need any help
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Cheers bud that will be awesome, still waiting to strip it down at my mums, off HD in a week so I'll head out there,

May start up a 3SGE Beams build thread and let everyone know what works and what doesn't, will try ST215 pistons,rods etc

Keen on the crank if it ends up that mine is stuffed!
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greeneyes
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Targa Master
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Ask Corey to keep an eye on this thread Leiden, he's on his third motor now I think! :P

He can tell you what went wrong and what he did to fix it, the whole long story of getting a reliable turbo'd 3SGE...

Then you can decide what to do after you've stripped yours- either rebuild yours with new stuff so you know its good, or get a shortblock to keep the car running while you fit heavy-gauge bits in yours to swap back later.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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madaltezza
Sleeper
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
yep it not cheap to biuld a strong altezza 3sge for turbo you've got to put the right bits in them and tune them propley. Ill let you guys know how mine goes when i put my motor in
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Sorry to ask, but who's Corey? :) I usually only know people by their user names, I've never been good with names anyway, let alone birth dates (sometimes I even forget my own one :unsure: )

Corey is turbo tezza, he's already posted a reply in here...

Haha Cool, Gotta love the phantom red writing :P
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Okay, some things got me thinking...

If I went with ST215 3SGTE pistons, would they still be stronger than 3SGE pistons after machining out the valve relief to 3SGE specification?

Like, are they forged pistons or still cast like the Beams 3SGE's? Are they even forged or are they just stronger because there's less cut out of the 3SGTE piston?

Are the 3SGTE rods definitely stronger? I thought that RPM's kill rods more than boost, in which case the Beams 3SGE has a higher red line (7800) than the Caldina/Celica GT4... so wouldn't the rods in the Beams 3SGE be stronger anyway?

Because I'm tossing up whether its worth spending $100-200 getting the 3SGTE pistons machined to Beams 3SGE spec if they end up being the same strength anyway...

I can get rods cheap enough, so no worries there!

Cant really afford to go with the 2JZ pistons if you need to get the crank modified and rebalanced...

And another thing, if you remove pistons from the block, even if your keeping the same rings do you still need to get the block honed or if you make sure they go back in the same bores can you get away with it?

I know with new rings you need to get the block re-honed, but unsure if you end up using the same rings...

Also, say you got a piston from another used Beams 3SGE, and installed it into my block, will the rings from the old Beams 3SGE work in the bore on my Beams 3SGE?
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madaltezza
Sleeper
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i wouldnt use you old rings most likely the ring wont sute the new pistions
and they old lol they will fail and you will have to pull the mota down again and start again doit once and it propley dont cut corners it cost you more in the long run

my mota if payed to get it rebilt would have cost me aroung 10- 15g there a lot of work goin in to it
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Okay true,

Hopefully a machine shop can clean it up, bore it out 0.5mm and then I can use the 0.5mm over size piston rings, that's if they don't cost an arm and a leg :(
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greeneyes
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Targa Master
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I don't know either way, but I would assume 3SG-T pistons are NOT forged as Toyota could factory build a turbo setup around stock components. There's a big price difference between cast and forged.

Toymods for you my man! Guys on there or similar forums should know.

I've put the same pistons/rings back in w/o honing but those three things go togeter really as rings and pistons and the bore wear to match one another.

Honing needs to be done at a fixed rotational speed AND a fixed vertical speed that gives grooves at a certain angle... 60deg I think it was.. machine shop work anyway.

You will only find out when its all in pieces.. We are all dying to know!! :D
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
What would you end up paying to get the block honed?

So if you reinstall the same pistons & rings into the same bore things should be okay? But hey, why not freshen it up while I'm in there :ph43r:
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Muzza
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Hamilton
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If they're going to bore it they should hone it and make sure it's ready for use. Always have in the past on engines i've rebuilt or had machined
Muzza
HKS RS Induction.
Tom's lightened flywheel,TRD Clutch,TRD Clutch Cover
Apexi SAFCII,Gizzmo Shiftlight-Launch conntroller,Pivot speedmetre-x
Cusco Front Strutbrace
Mintex M116 Brakepads
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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I want to keep it 86mm hopefully a hone wont take things out of specification, 0.5mm oversize rings may end up costing a lot more than the standard ones :(
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xnickx
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^^ You may thank me ^^
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The OS rings shouldnt cost much more, genuine ones only cost about another $30-$40 more for the set for OS rings
Contacting me for parts

Posted Image

Posted Image
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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How much for a set of genuine piston rings?
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Celica RA45
Lowered
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you can only use over size rings if you use new oversize pistons to match and if the bores are ok just get a dunny brush hone that scratches up the surface so the new rings will bed in ,and it doesnt take away to much material
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
What's a dunny brush hone?

I've bought some 2003 ST215 pistons, complete with rings, if I just give the bore a quick 'dunny brush' would the rings on the ST215 pistons bed in ok or should I invest in some new rings to be safe?

P.S. Thanks for the help so far everyone! Without it I would have just given up :( Really, really, really appreciate it!
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greeneyes
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Targa Master
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Dunny brush follows the shape worn into the cylinder, while standard hone works it straight


dunny brush hone
http://www.etoolcart.com/ProductImages/bru...rch/BRMGBD6.jpg

standard hone
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41I8...L500_AA280_.jpg


Quote:
 
I've bought some 2003 ST215 pistons

That's pretty keen, have you stripped it yet? The bore might be grooved in the cylinder with the problem and you'll need a rebore and oversize pistons.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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turbo tezza
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Sacked
[ *  *  *  * ]
Yea I still have the 3s-gte pistons I pulled out of my car last christmas.
They are in storage tho - and i'm in Perth :(

They all have marks on them where they were beating all the little turbo wheel pieces into the head.

They would clean up fine tho. I was running them with standard 3s-ge rods and all the rods were fine.

You can read all about my engine re-build in the vip section.

Cheers Corey
Location: Christchurch....and got a job driving - yay!!!

My Car build-up
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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They were going pretty cheap ha-ha, didn't want to miss out! Stripping the engine commences 18th February!

Hoping with a stroke of luck that the knocking is a worn big end, can get a crank easy enough, a block would be a lot harder!

Would explain the little metal bits in the sump, and lower compression on one cylinder, even 0.8mm of play in the bearing would be enough to drop the compression to 9.5:1 (maximum of 190psi on the gauge)

Compression Ratio x 20 = Highest Reading Attainable on Compression Gauge in PSI
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Found out the pistons I bought are actually for a ST246 Caldina 3SGTE, slightly different to the ST215 Caldina, not sure if they are totally different or just a revision of the old model, they don't share the same part number...

Celica_RA45 said that they should be a direct fit (ST215's) and drop the compression down to somewhere around 9.0:1, anyone confirm this?

I've been told the 3SGTE Caldina is a Yamaha Beams engine... can anyone confirm?
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greeneyes
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Targa Master
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Quote:
 
they should be a direct fit (ST215's) and drop the compression down to somewhere around 9.0:1


You can easily measure this when the motor is stripped, its just the distance fom the top of the gudgeon pin to the top of the piston, and any volume within the piston top dish.

A piece of 3mm plastic with a 5mm hole in it, seal onto the piston with grease and drip kero in from a burette to measure the volume. Same for combustion chamber volumes in the head...
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Here's some pictures of the ST245 pistons, yup this one has a bent rod, tried to run his car on water ;)

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Could I re-use the rings with a dunny brush hone, they were off a ST246 2003 Caldina with only 60,000km's on it, would be a lot fresher than my 150,000km's...?

How much would a brand new set of rings cost? I think I got quoted $400 or something crazy :blink:

Oh and the bearings look mint, might use them too :P
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
More pictures (Too many pictures restriction annoying :()

Posted Image Posted Image
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