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Fixing Rim Damage; advice anyone?
Topic Started: Jul 30 2009, 06:09 PM (893 Views)
Outlander
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Hey peeps, just thought id update you all on latest purchase( and latest headache)

VOLK RACING TE37's! second hand on trademe of course..

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And now for the headache.

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Ive already rung around a few places, some have said its fixable, others have said it isnt, yet i thought id get the forums opinion before i turn it into a cool footstool or coffee table.

P.S, i didnt even know it was possible to CRACK a forged one piece RAYS wheel. Whatever they did to the poor thing must have been massive.

Any advice or contacts would be appreciated at this point, i had hoped to get them fixed up and sold on straight away, but it looks like it may take some time after all haha.

Cheers Guys

Kyle
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Maccabro
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they may be forged but they are only made of magnesium alloy so they arent that tough, soft metal, but anythings fixable, its just how much it will cost to do it and wether its worth it. a reparer will only v the crack out, weld it, machine it and make sure its running true and not buckled. and then it would need repainting so yeah the $$$$ would just keep mounting up. best place i recon for it is in the scrap bin man. ;) or as your coffie table.
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pras
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Technically, the way a forged wheel is formed, it is impossible to acihive the same characteristics by a repair.

Anyone who's repairing it and will keep it looking the same, will have sacrificed something for that, making the rays hot forging redundant.

The particular wheel may have been slid into a gutter at high speed.

If you so desire, get a materials expert to look at the grain and area surrounding the crack, and they can tell you if it was a deformity, pitting that caused it, rays QC is the best.

Are you sure it's not a copy?

I'd pursue down the path of getting your money back through the correct channels.

Or replace the wheel, they sell them induvidually still.

Really depends if the other 3 are genuine and worth keeping... i'd say a 16... around 3-450 for a good new one. Or you may be able to pick up a pair s/h
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jeremyflower
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Very rare to find a wheel that has any actual Magnesium in them these days. this one will be solid aluminium, probably a 4000 series alloy.

Being a forged mag, I would not try to have it repaired as the heat caused by welding will change the crystalline structure of the aluminium around the weld, causing a weak point. I would not be able to trust it to continue to do it's job to the original specs after that.

Would make a mint coffee table!! Nice piece of tempered glass for a table top and a polished aluminium pillar and base... Damn now I need to find some wrecked mags to experiment with...
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Outlander
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They are the real deal my friends, genuine rays wheels, all MINT, except this one of course( whats strange about the crack though, is there is NO sign of damage at all, no scratches, no nicks, no nothing, just a nasty crack seemingly out of the blue). i only paid about 240 for them, so i still think its a bargain, even if i do have to replace one wheel, i still have 3 others that are waiting for it.

If it comes down to it i could always put the good 3 up for sale, and use the cracked one as a coffee table, either way thanks for the input, id really like to fix them up and sell them on as a whole set, but if thats going to be too much of a drain maybe someone will get lucky and pick up an awesome JDM spare tyre lol!
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pras
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Or keep the 16's for the front and get a set of 18's for the rear and go oldschool!

IF they are genuine (don't know why someone would run GT radials on a gen set, te37's are function over form imho) and you only paid 240 for them then you really did get a bargin... just buy a new one and you've got a great set of wheels and drivable tyres for a bargin still.

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greeneyes
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Interesting... The 'Works' teams run magnesium alloy wheels, well, they used to!

Aluminium alloy is heavier, but cheaper, so commercial 'mag' or alloy wheels are aluminium alloys.

The odd thing is that aluminium is soft and flexible, so it bends, while magnesium alloys are hard and rigid, so they crack and break.

I'd get hold of Volk, send them the photos and ask what alloy they use, do tehy find cracking normal and do they think its fixable.

I reckon it was a dud casting, as there should be a MASSIVE dent in the rim to cause that spoke to crack even if they are magnesium.

If they are aluminium like we expect, then they shouldn't crack at all. I've seen rally rims that have been folded up without cracking...

They should replace it as a manufacturing fault.
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2ToneTezza
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before you pay to get it repaired, what car have you got? They're off a WRX which are 5x100 stud pattern from memory, ie. won't fit an Altezza 5x114.3
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jeremyflower
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greeneyes,Jul 30 2009
07:22 PM
Interesting... The 'Works' teams run magnesium alloy wheels, well, they used to!

Aluminium alloy is heavier, but cheaper, so commercial 'mag' or alloy wheels are aluminium alloys.

The odd thing is that aluminium is soft and flexible, so it bends, while magnesium alloys are hard and rigid, so they crack and break.

I'd get hold of Volk, send them the photos and ask what alloy they use, do tehy find cracking normal and do they think its fixable.

I reckon it was a dud casting, as there should be a MASSIVE dent in the rim to cause that spoke to crack even if they are magnesium.

If they are aluminium like we expect, then they shouldn't crack at all. I've seen rally rims that have been folded up without cracking...

They should replace it as a manufacturing fault.

Depends on what alloy of aluminium they're made from, some alloys are soft but others, such as 7075 can be hardened so that they have a much higher strength to weight ratio that steel.

Magnesium is a very rare and expensive material to make things from, we had to buy in some Magnesium welding rods for a job the other day, price bought a tear to my eye...

Some light reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy

The more I think about that crack the more I'm thinking it's a flaw in the wheel, for a crack that size to open up with no other visible damage is very unusual to say the least. You might be able to talk to the manufacturers and get them to inspect it, you may even get something out of complaining, never know if you don't ask :-)
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Outlander
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Yes, 5x100 stud pattern, so i knew that they would not fit my car(Altezza). But i couldnt resist such a good deal. Ive flicked off a few more emails to some people to hopefully get some more insight into whats gone on, and il be sure to send Volk NZ a email as well.
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Muller
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The are a sexy wheel!
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Maccabro
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jeremyflower,Jul 30 2009
07:27 PM
Very rare to find a wheel that has any actual Magnesium in them these days. this one will be solid aluminium, probably a 4000 series alloy.

Being a forged mag, I would not try to have it repaired as the heat caused by welding will change the crystalline structure of the aluminium around the weld, causing a weak point. I would not be able to trust it to continue to do it's job to the original specs after that.

Would make a mint coffee table!! Nice piece of tempered glass for a table top and a polished aluminium pillar and base... Damn now I need to find some wrecked mags to experiment with...

easy test to see if they have any magnesium in them is to sit them into salt water, and if they start fizzing away, well they have magnesium in them, thats why usually if a aircraft crashes into the ocean, buy the time they retreive the a/c the tyres can be found, but not the wheels as they have fizzed away because of reaction to the salt water.... like the convair 580 that crashed in paraparamu a few years ago..... yes they have more mag in thier wheels but same difference.
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Outlander
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Yes very sexy indeed!

@maccabro: No way, lol i dont want my have my Volks to end up fizzing away like some nasty Berrocca tablet! lol.

Ive sent an email off to Rays NZ, haha, you will never believe the reply i got. Brief to say the least:



Hi Kyle,

Sorry they are not fixable

I don't know what those wheels have been through.

Regards,
Mike
Rays Wheels NZ


Some help they are! I sent another one, this time perhaps being a bit more " aggressive" in my approach and wording. Hoping for some better results.
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Robo
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Rays Wheels NZ needs to cover their ass as well. They don't want to repair a wheel, then it breaks and causes an accident.
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pras
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They owe you a better explanation than that!
I mean what if it was a fault in their process, and thier reputation depends on the quality people pay for...

I mean there are knockoffs for te37's galore, the design it not amazing, but the difference between casting and machining vs forging and machining should be worlds arpart...

Is it possible at all to get a better picture of the area where the break is close up?

Seems like there are some material's experts here, but it looks like it was caused by the material shearing due to axial load accross the face of the wheel. But even that doesn't make sense... unless there was a weak point in the grain!\

The weakest point in that wheel should be where the spoke connects to the outer rim. THe point where it has broken is the second weakest around that curve.

I'd say it's a manufacturing fault, but it shouldve been picked up using xray/ultrasound whatever they do, sorry i don't know the term, to check the material integrity + that woudl be super rare in forging.

Perhaps it was an impurity in the ingot they hot forged the face from?
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Outlander
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Pics posted.
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Outlander
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Sorry for the delay all, had to find the damn camera first!!

Anyways here are the pics of the damage up close, and still no reply from RAYS NZ.


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jeremyflower
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Looks like a very clean break, you can see how hard the forging made the alloy is by the way it's chipped away at the edges of the break. The wheel was on the car fo a while after it was broken and was moving around a lot, bet the faces of the break will be almost smooth.

Being that it is a 2nd hand wheel it will be hard for anyone to know exactly what the wheel has been through to get it in that condition and your chances of having it replaced by Rays are slim being that you aren't the original owner.

If you can find someone who will x-ray it for cheap you'll know a lot more about what's going on in there, may even sway the minds of the manufacturers... Plus I'd be very keen to have a look myself ;-)
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Maccabro
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Outlander,Jul 31 2009
09:00 PM
I never asked them to fix them, the initial email i sent merely asked if they found this sort of thing common and if there was any kind of system in place to sort out these kind of enquiries, the above reply is what i got in respone.

And hell yes they owe me a better explanation! my last email was a bit more agressive, not anger managment material or anything, just, reassuring that i wont let that simple answer silence me. :)

Sure, il get out the digi tomorrow and take some close ups of the crack.

dont mean to be rude, but just because rays made the wheel doesnt mean they owe you any kind of explination or repair or anything for that matter. you brought a second hand set of mags, thats the risk you take. thats probly why you got the lack of a reply from them. they will only say ..... your problem, not our problem. driving over a decent pot hole in the road could do that sort of damage. i think there are too many people who are expecting too much from rays on this thread!! -_- <_< :wacko:
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tikboy2007
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Maccabro,Aug 8 2009
06:56 AM
Outlander,Jul 31 2009
09:00 PM
I never asked them to fix them, the initial email i sent merely asked if they found this sort of thing common and if there was any kind of system in place to sort out these kind of enquiries, the above reply is what i got in respone.

And hell yes they owe me a better explanation! my last email was a bit more agressive, not anger managment material or anything, just, reassuring that i wont let that simple answer silence me. :)

Sure, il get out the digi tomorrow and take some close ups of the crack.

dont mean to be rude, but just because rays made the wheel doesnt mean they owe you any kind of explination or repair or anything for that matter. you brought a second hand set of mags, thats the risk you take. thats probly why you got the lack of a reply from them. they will only say ..... your problem, not our problem. driving over a decent pot hole in the road could do that sort of damage. i think there are too many people who are expecting too much from rays on this thread!! -_- <_< :wacko:

yeah i agree here - you bought it second hand & damaged, remember you always get what you pay for (well most of the time anyway) :P
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jeremyflower
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Maccabro,Aug 8 2009
06:56 PM
Outlander,Jul 31 2009
09:00 PM
I never asked them to fix them, the initial email i sent merely asked if they found this sort of thing common and if there was any kind of system in place to sort out these kind of enquiries, the above reply is what i got in respone.

And hell yes they owe me a better explanation! my last email was a bit more agressive, not anger managment material or anything, just, reassuring that i wont let that simple answer silence me. :)

Sure, il get out the digi tomorrow and take some close ups of the crack.

dont mean to be rude, but just because rays made the wheel doesnt mean they owe you any kind of explination or repair or anything for that matter. you brought a second hand set of mags, thats the risk you take. thats probly why you got the lack of a reply from them. they will only say ..... your problem, not our problem. driving over a decent pot hole in the road could do that sort of damage. i think there are too many people who are expecting too much from rays on this thread!! -_- <_< :wacko:

It's not just the fact that the wheel is broken that has everyone up in arms, it's the fact that that crack exists with no other obvious damage on a wheel that is supposed to be one of the strongest available on the market. It's just very unusual.

If it is a fault in the actual metal that the wheel is made from it could be a fault through the entire batch, that's something I'm pretty sure Rays would want to know about...
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Maccabro
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jeremyflower,Aug 8 2009
08:06 PM
Maccabro,Aug 8 2009
06:56 PM
Outlander,Jul 31 2009
09:00 PM
I never asked them to fix them, the initial email i sent merely asked if they found this sort of thing common and if there was any kind of system in place to sort out these kind of enquiries, the above reply is what i got in respone.

And hell yes they owe me a better explanation! my last email was a bit more agressive, not anger managment material or anything, just, reassuring that i wont let that simple answer silence me. :)

Sure, il get out the digi tomorrow and take some close ups of the crack.

dont mean to be rude, but just because rays made the wheel doesnt mean they owe you any kind of explination or repair or anything for that matter. you brought a second hand set of mags, thats the risk you take. thats probly why you got the lack of a reply from them. they will only say ..... your problem, not our problem. driving over a decent pot hole in the road could do that sort of damage. i think there are too many people who are expecting too much from rays on this thread!! -_- <_< :wacko:

It's not just the fact that the wheel is broken that has everyone up in arms, it's the fact that that crack exists with no other obvious damage on a wheel that is supposed to be one of the strongest available on the market. It's just very unusual.

If it is a fault in the actual metal that the wheel is made from it could be a fault through the entire batch, that's something I'm pretty sure Rays would want to know about...

the wheel was probly made in japan for one, not nz and made who knows how many years ago. judgeing by the answer he got from them, its pretty obvious that they dont give a rats ass.
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Outlander
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I Never expected a repair or a "ok young man we will just whip you up a new one and everything will be gravy" I expected a bit of silence, but the only reason these went up for sale in the first place was because of the damage. Which still cannot be explained by anyone(and believe me i have been high and low asking about it)

Quote:
 
driving over a decent pot hole in the road could do that sort of damage.


No, it couldn't, this kind of damage, especially to a forged wheel, is very unlikely to happen, if at all. It would need to have been launched off of a ramp Ken Block style to even come close i'd imagine...

All i did was send them pictures, explained what i thought may have happened, asked them to comment or clarify anything i may have gotten wrong, and to give me some advice on what could have caused the damage. I never asked them to replace it, i barely even hinted that it could have been a manufacturing fault.

And they should give a rats ass, the RAYS brand made its name off of superior quality wheels and a top notch QC. Something like this happening is obviously a thorn in their side, but still, its an issue that warrants their attention, and not just "sorry mate, cant fix it, dunno what happened..." like i got from them. A proper answer to the questions i asked would not have gone amiss.
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Maccabro
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Outlander,Aug 8 2009
08:34 PM
I Never expected a repair or a "ok young man we will just whip you up a new one and everything will be gravy" I expected a bit of silence, but the only reason these went up for sale in the first place was because of the damage. Which still cannot be explained by anyone(and believe me i have been high and low asking about it)



No, it couldn't, this kind of damage, especially to a forged wheel, is very unlikely to happen, if at all. It would need to have been launched off of a ramp Ken Block style to even come close i'd imagine...

All i did was send them pictures, explained what i thought may have happened, asked them to comment or clarify anything i may have gotten wrong, and to give me some advice on what could have caused the damage.  I never asked them to replace it, i barely even hinted that it could have been a manufacturing fault.

And they should give a rats ass, the RAYS brand made its name off of superior quality wheels and a top notch QC. Something like this happening is obviously a thorn in their side, but still, its an issue that warrants their attention, and not just "sorry mate, cant fix it, dunno what happened..." like i got from them. A proper answer to the questions i asked would not have gone amiss.

no... they dont have to give a rats ass about anything... m8. any one with half a brain wouldnt have brought damaged rims anyway unless they were for spare rims if you already had a set of them. my opinion anyway. rofl
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greeneyes
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I agree with Outlander here, but if Rays want to ignore it that's fine, its a business decision that will affect their business.

Obviously they are NOT as good as people think, and on top of making crap they have pitifully bad customer relations.

You could whore the photos around a dozen car forums where ppl buys Rays and ask if anyone has seen this before, and you might get another three or four examples the same. If I was importing Rays I wouldn't want that to happen!

I am amazed that there is no damage to the edges of the rim, so whatever stress caused the crack was taken entirely by the tyre. Its not as though he drifted it into a kerb..

Does it spin true on both edges still?
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