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Apexi Power Fc Differences
Topic Started: Oct 16 2009, 12:44 PM (4,729 Views)
Major Clod
Soccer Mom
[ * ]
Hi all,

Apologies if this has been answered before, I've spent the last few days searching and contacted a few retailers without too many solid responses.

Apparently there are 4 versions floating around:

414-AT006 Toyota - Altezza - SXE10 98/10-01/4 3S-GE
414-AT010 Toyota - Altezza - SXE10 98/10-01/4 3S-GE (Suitable for Apexi Turbo)

414-AT013 Toyota - Altezza - SXE10 01/5 3S-GE
414-AT014 Toyota - Altezza - SXE10 01/5 3S-GE (Suitable for Apexi Turbo)

Now I understand the difference between the two model years, thats not a problem.

What I want to know is what does "Suitable for Apexi Turbo" actually mean.

- Does it provide additional features to suit forced induction?
- Does it require additional sensors?
- Can I run a NA motor perfectly on a "turbo PFC"
- Can I run Forced Induction on a "non turbo PFC"

And finally, if any of you are running PFC's, which part number do you have?


I'm looking at a PFC for the 3SGE in my RA23 Celica. Obviously I'm running a different exhaust to the SXE10 and I'm running an Apexi Power Intake as I have no room for the SXE10 Airbox. I want to keep my motor NA for the time being, but don't want to rule out Forced Induction in the future. I'd rather get one PFC now and not have to upgrade again, and the car is completely wired up with the SXE10 ECU/Loom so I'd much rather go PFC than completely standalone ECU.

Cheers,

Ryan
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Distrb
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Nuts
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Major Clod,Oct 16 2009
12:44 PM
1 Does it provide additional features to suit forced induction?
2 Does it require additional sensors?
3 Can I run a NA motor perfectly on a "turbo PFC"
4 Can I run Forced Induction on a "non turbo PFC"

1&2 Yes, it requires the additional MAP sensor & harness to enable it to read manifold pressure when running boost.

3 - Yes

4 - yes, that is what i do. just have to graft in a bigger MAF sensor that can read higher than stock one can. VG30 ones are apparently the ones to use, (i use something different) and have the wiring diagrams to suit.

I run 414-AT006 Toyota - Altezza - SXE10 98/10-01/4 3S-GE (commonly reffered to L-Jetro version)
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Major Clod
Soccer Mom
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Excellent, thanks for that info!

So would that mean the turbo version can work with the existing MAF sensor when running Naturally Aspirated and require the MAP Sensor when Forced Induction? Or would it simply not use the MAF at all and require a MAP Sensor regardless of NA or FI?

Would that then mean I can switch to a MAP sensor instead of MAF when running NA if I needed to?

Really appreciate the help.
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Distrb
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Major Clod,Oct 16 2009
02:46 PM
Excellent, thanks for that info!

So would that mean the turbo version can work with the existing MAF sensor when running Naturally Aspirated and require the MAP Sensor when Forced Induction?  Or would it simply not use the MAF at all and require a MAP Sensor regardless of NA or FI? 

Would that then mean I can switch to a MAP sensor instead of MAF when running NA if I needed to?

Really appreciate the help.

in an n/a setup with that ecu, you could either:

- run it with the map sensor unit plugged in
- run it without the map sensor unit plugged in, just simply using the stock MAF sensor

and have it tuned to suit.
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
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Distrb,Oct 16 2009
12:55 AM
Major Clod,Oct 16 2009
12:44 PM
1 Does it provide additional features to suit forced induction?
2 Does it require additional sensors?
3 Can I run a NA motor perfectly on a "turbo PFC"
4 Can I run Forced Induction on a "non turbo PFC"

1&2 Yes, it requires the additional MAP sensor & harness to enable it to read manifold pressure when running boost.

3 - Yes

4 - yes, that is what i do. just have to graft in a bigger MAF sensor that can read higher than stock one can. VG30 ones are apparently the ones to use, (i use something different) and have the wiring diagrams to suit.

I run 414-AT006 Toyota - Altezza - SXE10 98/10-01/4 3S-GE (commonly reffered to L-Jetro version)

Is it just graft VG30 MAF sensor to instead of factory one?
Still use back Altezza PFC for engine control?

Link Reference:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclu...&#entry11460042


As I got PFC for my Turbo Altezza before, but I checked in web that there is no MAP PFC for Altezza.

So Can I make my PFC to run with MAP? Just upgrade w/ kit of D-jetro?

If not, definately we have to use factory MAF if want to use PFC unless we choose V Pro / Motec for running with MAP.

As my friend also try to run with MAF, his Altezza was similar setting with mine.

He had installed the quad throttle with factory MAF which was installed in the induction pipe before air box.

And he also used the PFC for engine control. But there were some problems as follow,
1. It just doesn't work with the base map. As I knew Power FC cannot learn like stock ECU.
2. When e-throttle is disabled, CEL is on. But Power FC cannot solve this problem?
3. Stalling was very often on load when I used Power FC with quad throttle.

Till now, I can ensure It's theoretically possible. But cannot find out why it was happened.
Eventually I used Motec M800 to instead PFC for engine control w/ using MAP sensor.

Could you please give me some advice on this?
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Distrb
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Tatsujin,Dec 15 2010
05:47 AM

Is it just graft VG30 MAF sensor to instead of factory one?
Still use back Altezza PFC for engine control?

Link Reference:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclu...&#entry11460042


As I got PFC for my Turbo Altezza before, but I checked in web that there is no MAP PFC for Altezza.

So Can I make my PFC to run with MAP? Just upgrade w/ kit of D-jetro?

If not, definately we have to use factory MAF if want to use PFC unless we choose V Pro / Motec for running with MAP.

As my friend also try to run with MAF, his Altezza was similar setting with mine.

He had installed the quad throttle with factory MAF which was installed in the induction pipe before air box.

And he also used the PFC for engine control. But there were some problems as follow,
1. It just doesn't work with the base map. As I knew Power FC cannot learn like stock ECU.
2. When e-throttle is disabled, CEL is on. But Power FC cannot solve this problem?
3. Stalling was very often on load when I used Power FC with quad throttle.

Till now, I can ensure It's theoretically possible. But cannot find out why it was happened.
Eventually I used Motec M800 to instead PFC for engine control w/ using MAP sensor.

Could you please give me some advice on this?

gee whizz you put enough of the same post everywhere.


to try to answer some of your questions:

the advice above about map sensor i believe to be incorrect due to my mis-interpretation of information i had found at the time. there was never an official Djetro version of the altezza power fc made. Some people (i am guilty of this at times) use the term "djetro" to differentiate between the n/a and turbo one. the only difference between the two made for the altezza is one was made for use with the apex-i turbo kit, and as such has a base map to suit the turbo so you can install it and drive to your tuner safely. They have the ability to plug in a boost control kit so you can use the PFC to control boost, but i have been warned off this by many people in the industry as it is not as effective as an stand alone electronic boost controller.

Both versions are made to plug into the factory loom and work with the factory sensors whilst giving you the adjustability over fuel, ignition, vvt-i on both camshafts etc. only time you'd want to graft in a bigger AFM/MAF is if you are requiring more airflow than your current one can read (which is why i suggested grafting in a Vg30 to the chap earlier as they can read much larger amounts of air)


Can you make your power fc run with MAP sensor? you need to consult apex-i with that one, or whatever the company is called these days (apexeria?) to see what can be done. they can give you definite answer. Maybe there is a way people have made it work themselves, but i do not know it.

personally i have not tried to run a 3sge with quads and airbox using stock maf and power fc, so i really cannot answer or explain the issues you are having with it, as i have not done it myself. My experience is more around making them work with boost and adapting larger maf/afm to work with them. Only suggestions i can make is looking at basic things like making sure your airbox is sealed properly, and there are no leaks on either side of the throttlebodies or anywhere on the intake path before the maf sensor. Also make sure that the Maf sensor is in the correct size housing (as the housing is key in determining the correct flow of air to the motor) and fitted the correct way round (it will not read properly if fitted backwards) In theory it should be quite easy, but i dont have the practical experience of having done it to advise you any further.

Hope that helps in some way
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
[ * ]
Distrb,Dec 15 2010
12:48 AM
Tatsujin,Dec 15 2010
05:47 AM

Is it just graft VG30 MAF sensor to instead of factory one?
Still use back Altezza PFC for engine control?

Link Reference:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclu...&#entry11460042


As I got PFC for my Turbo Altezza before, but I checked in web that there is no MAP PFC for Altezza.

So Can I make my PFC to run with MAP? Just upgrade w/ kit of D-jetro?

If not, definately we have to use factory MAF if want to use PFC unless we choose V Pro / Motec for running with MAP.

As my friend also try to run with MAF, his Altezza was similar setting with mine.

He had installed the quad throttle with factory MAF which was installed in the induction pipe before air box.

And he also used the PFC for engine control. But there were some problems as follow,
1. It just doesn't work with the base map. As I knew Power FC cannot learn like stock ECU.
2. When e-throttle is disabled, CEL is on. But Power FC cannot solve this problem?
3. Stalling was very often on load when I used Power FC with quad throttle.

Till now, I can ensure It's theoretically possible. But cannot find out why it was happened.
Eventually I used Motec M800 to instead PFC for engine control w/ using MAP sensor.

Could you please give me some advice on this?

gee whizz you put enough of the same post everywhere.


to try to answer some of your questions:

the advice above about map sensor i believe to be incorrect due to my mis-interpretation of information i had found at the time. there was never an official Djetro version of the altezza power fc made. Some people (i am guilty of this at times) use the term "djetro" to differentiate between the n/a and turbo one. the only difference between the two made for the altezza is one was made for use with the apex-i turbo kit, and as such has a base map to suit the turbo so you can install it and drive to your tuner safely. They have the ability to plug in a boost control kit so you can use the PFC to control boost, but i have been warned off this by many people in the industry as it is not as effective as an stand alone electronic boost controller.

Both versions are made to plug into the factory loom and work with the factory sensors whilst giving you the adjustability over fuel, ignition, vvt-i on both camshafts etc. only time you'd want to graft in a bigger AFM/MAF is if you are requiring more airflow than your current one can read (which is why i suggested grafting in a Vg30 to the chap earlier as they can read much larger amounts of air)


Can you make your power fc run with MAP sensor? you need to consult apex-i with that one, or whatever the company is called these days (apexeria?) to see what can be done. they can give you definite answer. Maybe there is a way people have made it work themselves, but i do not know it.

personally i have not tried to run a 3sge with quads and airbox using stock maf and power fc, so i really cannot answer or explain the issues you are having with it, as i have not done it myself. My experience is more around making them work with boost and adapting larger maf/afm to work with them. Only suggestions i can make is looking at basic things like making sure your airbox is sealed properly, and there are no leaks on either side of the throttlebodies or anywhere on the intake path before the maf sensor. Also make sure that the Maf sensor is in the correct size housing (as the housing is key in determining the correct flow of air to the motor) and fitted the correct way round (it will not read properly if fitted backwards) In theory it should be quite easy, but i dont have the practical experience of having done it to advise you any further.

Hope that helps in some way

Hi Distrb,

Thank you for your detail answer.

I did all but there was bad result.

I want to try on mine with quad throttle and PFC.
My PFC is turbo version I recognize. I dismantled it from Apexi Turbo Kit @v@

For your suggest, use VG30 MAF sensor to instead of factory one, I want to ensure Altezza PFC whether it can read / recognize VG30 MAF sensor?

MAF sensors of Altezza and VG30 are not same in part no..
How Altezza PFC can read? Or change to VG30's PFC to run with VG30 MAF?

It is much appericate for your reply.



By the way, I asked Japan Apexi, but there is no solid answer and said "Don't know" and instruct me to consult our local distributor.

I also asked my distributor "Super GT" in Hong Kong.
The most ridiculous answer from them is "no body will change to Altezza with quad" =__=!!! How about TRD Street Spec one? HaHa T__T
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Soiled Altezza
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If you have the hand controller hooked up currently, try looking through the options.... you can set up a different MAF sensor.
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Garage: http://altezza.dualzdesigns.com/viewcar.ph...wner=17&frmpg=0
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
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Soiled Altezza,Dec 15 2010
07:36 AM
If you have the hand controller hooked up currently, try looking through the options.... you can set up a different MAF sensor.

Thanks! I got the commander! I try first.
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Celica RA45
Lowered
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doesnt TRD recommend to but aftermarket ecu like motec for 270ps that there kit makes ,with all of the parts from the TRD catologe just use 1 and get on with it .and stop going on about the same crap all of the time :ot: :ot: :ot:
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madaltezza
Sleeper
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here is my 2 cents worth if you are putting a altezza motor in to a RA23 Celica i would be going for a aftermarket wire in ecu eg link of somthing of that sort as it will be much eazer to wire as there is a lot of stuff in a altezza loom/ecu that is not needed it will also slove the probs with maf sencors and air boxs as they run map sencors
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
[ * ]
Celica RA45,Dec 15 2010
09:47 AM
doesnt TRD recommend to but aftermarket ecu like motec for 270ps that there kit makes ,with all of the parts from the TRD catologe just use 1 and get on with it .and stop going on about the same crap all of the time :ot: :ot: :ot:

I don't think this is crap!

Please keep peace here.
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Leiden
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I'll 2nd Jason, if you were keeping the Beams in an Altezza then I'd stick with the PowerFC, minimal hassle being plug in and play.

Seeing as you're going for an engine swap you'd want to eliminate most of the loom, the Altezza has alot of it! Definately consider something like a Link G4 and get rid of that crappy MAF sensor, less hassle in the long run.

Trust me, I've relocated the ECU into the cabin and that was mission enough let alone splicing the Caldina ECU into the Altezza Body Loom.
Project Thread
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
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Leiden,Dec 16 2010
01:24 PM
I'll 2nd Jason, if you were keeping the Beams in an Altezza then I'd stick with the PowerFC, minimal hassle being plug in and play.

Seeing as you're going for an engine swap you'd want to eliminate most of the loom, the Altezza has alot of it! Definately consider something like a Link G4 and get rid of that crappy MAF sensor, less hassle in the long run.

Trust me, I've relocated the ECU into the cabin and that was mission enough let alone splicing the Caldina ECU into the Altezza Body Loom.

How come do you use Caldina ECU?
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lowtezza
Soccer Mom
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i have a power fc and run it with the evey day toyota MAP sensor and it go as hard as
go fast or dont go at all
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
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lowtezza,Dec 31 2010
01:49 PM
i have a power fc and run it with the evey day toyota MAP sensor and it go as hard as

How's the wiring?
And That MAP Sensor is belonged to which car?
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Rallytezza
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Just curious - will an early model PFC run in a late model Altezza and vice versa??
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
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Rallytezza,Jan 1 2011
09:20 PM
Just curious - will an early model PFC run in a late model Altezza and vice versa??

They cannot be suited for each other.
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Soiled Altezza
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Really? I thought the only differences between early and late model Altezzas were emission controls, so would have thought that either ecus would work on either model. I don't actually know though.
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Garage: http://altezza.dualzdesigns.com/viewcar.ph...wner=17&frmpg=0
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Tatsujin
Soccer Mom
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Soiled Altezza,Jan 3 2011
09:21 AM
Really? I thought the only differences between early and late model Altezzas were emission controls, so would have thought that either ecus would work on either model. I don't actually know though.

There is wiring difference between early and late model Altezzas.

You can check it on manuals.

But maybe you can rectify the wiring for using late model PFC to suit on early Altezza.
It should be okay I think.
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xnickx
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^^ You may thank me ^^
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Bringing up an old thread (Andrew?!)

Looking at getting a PFC (finally!) as the eManage will finally be out of a job when I get on with what I'll be doing etc.

Mine being a 1998, I also understand that I require one of either:
414-AT006 or 414-AT010

Am I right to say the only differences:
414-AT006 requires a MAP sensor and harness (If I run a MAP, if I stick to a MAF this is ok?)
414-AT010 will include the MAP but have the ability to run the MAF sensor or the MAP sensor?

I see the one on TM from NZEFI, however I remember a member mentioning it made his car randomly stalling every now and then, so will wait for another to pop up or just get one from Japan
Contacting me for parts

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xnickx
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Actually I now see these numbers instead, are they for the later type with the new controller?

414BT010 - Turbo
414BT006 - NA
(both to suit my 1998)
Contacting me for parts

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Higgsy
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what have you got planned nicholas?
from a beams ITB to a 2JZ
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xnickx
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Lol nothing much. Cars been sidetracked and will still be for a while yet till I find another house lol
Contacting me for parts

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Tezz-Winnie
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Nick unless you can get them for cheaper, nengun are doing then foot just over 1k aus
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