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| Timing Belt | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 22 2010, 06:01 PM (1,170 Views) | |
| cookie | Mar 22 2010, 06:01 PM Post #1 |
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Custom
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Well as luck would have it my timing belt snapped this morning. Has anyone else had this happen on the 3sge Beams engine? I have read that these motors are an "interference engine", while I know what that means I would like to know if a broken timing belt will always result in piston to valve contact or do you sometimes get lucky. As I was just coming off a stop sign and the engine was only doing about 2000rpm I'm hoping that the "Interference" might only apply when the VVTi is in operation. If anyone can shed some light it would be greatly appreciated and will enable me to sleep tonight and probably the rest of the week. |
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| DR-JEKL | Mar 22 2010, 07:39 PM Post #2 |
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Drifter
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Shit that's bad luck mate! I thought you had a brand new crate motor? I do recall reading another forum member who ended up with a few bent valves
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| cookie | Mar 22 2010, 07:55 PM Post #3 |
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Custom
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Nah, the motor Iv'e got is a second hand one I bought from Japan via Import Monster. I really hope there is not too much damage, a couple of bent valves I could deal with. |
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| Robo | Mar 22 2010, 08:57 PM Post #4 |
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Body-Kitted
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Oh man, that sucks! How many kms has the belt done? |
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| xnickx | Mar 22 2010, 08:59 PM Post #5 |
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^^ You may thank me ^^
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Bugger thats no good! Yeah Noel from Ireland snapped a belt and it took out a few inlet valves and the exhaust valves too. Think the pistons were ok though, just a gasket set, few valves and a cambelt kit was purchased if I'm not wrong. Have had 1 through work with just 1 bent exhaust valve (exhaust side on a 5AT 3SGE) Shouldn't be too bad, if not Geoff in Australia has a spare 3SGE. |
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| cookie | Mar 22 2010, 09:48 PM Post #6 |
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Custom
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Fortunately Iv'e still got the spare engine too. Will wait and see what needs doing when they start working on it. If the head has to come off do you guy's think it's worth putting double head gaskets on or not worry about it. As far as Klm's on the belt go, this is the weird bit, I had the belts, idler, water pump etc all replaced when I had the flywheel and clutch installed. This was done just before the turbo went on at 132,000, the car has now done 141,000. Obviously the belts should last a hell of a lot longer than 9,000 so maybe I got a dud belt or something. |
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| DR-JEKL | Mar 22 2010, 09:53 PM Post #7 |
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Drifter
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Who did you get to install the timing belt?!? Was it an oem or aftermarket belt? |
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| Soiled Altezza | Mar 22 2010, 10:16 PM Post #8 |
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Did you have a manual head or an auto head? If you had an auto head the valves are softer and more likely to bend causing less damage to the pistons, the manual are titanium (from memory) and tend to shatter on impact and wreck everything. |
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| Leiden | Mar 22 2010, 10:22 PM Post #9 |
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NZ, Whangarei
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Oh crap! Did the motor come to a comple halt or did it seem to idle down as if you had turned the key off? Mine was done at 98,000km's, I'm approaching 175,000km's and the belt still looks mint! Seriously have to consider doing it now
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| Project Thread | |
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| cookie | Mar 22 2010, 10:38 PM Post #10 |
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Custom
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It's a manual. There was no grinding, earth shattering noises and the motor just stopped as if I turned the ignition off. The symptoms led me to believe that I had blown an intercooler pipe off. That's how subtle the stop was. Not knowing what it was and the fact that it was not accompanied by any horrible noises, I attempted to restart it, still no noises and it tried to go but basically drifted back off to sleep. The guy that did the work is a family friend and I trust him over anyone to work on my car so I don't believe he is at fault. The belt came with the car when I bought it along with the water pump and idler etc. Actually I think they may have been sourced from NZ by the previous owner. I'm not really interested in laying blame anywhere, I just want it back on the road. |
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| Celica RA45 | Mar 23 2010, 07:01 AM Post #11 |
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Lowered
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cookie i have valves and peaces of motors if you need anything glenn |
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| greeneyes | Mar 23 2010, 09:26 AM Post #12 |
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Targa Master
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If the belt goes it should not fire at all, not one more time, it just stops dead. It can't get any fuel in through the valves that are closed and it can't fire or exhaust the cylinders with closed valves. The valves that are well open get bent. Have you got the belt in your hand yet? Could it be something else? My Nissan cam sensor had similar symptoms when it failed- cranked, fire occasioally but couldn't catch. |
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The Girl's KE70- http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/ How NOT to build a rally car- http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/ | |
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| cookie | Mar 25 2010, 08:17 PM Post #13 |
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Custom
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Sorry for not replying but Iv'e been in Brisbane doing some training for the new job. Anyway, it would appear that Iv'e been extremely lucky, no internal damage at all. The guy that fixed it said the belt did not actually snap it slipped off the gears due to an incorrectly adjusted tensioner. Due to certain circumstances of people owing others money the fix hasn't cost me a cent, but I will have a chat to the guy that previously changed it to let him know that whatever he did wasn't quite correct. Now for the Techie's, I'm wondering if the reason there was no damage was because it happened at approx 2000rpm and VVtI was not activated. I recall one of our members using 2jz pistons and reporting that at low rpm all was good but when he did a power run and VVtI came on all hell broke loose and destroyed half his engine. Makes me think that the 3sge being an interference engine might only apply when VVtI is activated and the slight change in valve timing is enough to promote the piston to valve contact in timing belt failure. I know I would like to know definately as would many other members. If anyone could research this and post up any facts it would be great. I just find it hard to believe that I could be that lucky. |
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| caveman | Mar 25 2010, 08:44 PM Post #14 |
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Tauranga, NZ
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Have a look here at Disturb's buildhere about half way down the page (September 10) edit: more here |
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| cookie | Mar 25 2010, 09:36 PM Post #15 |
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Custom
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Going by that there could be some truth in the VVTi theory. I know he was using 2jz pistons but being that the damage occured above 5000rpm there has got to be something in the theory. |
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| Distrb | Mar 26 2010, 09:19 AM Post #16 |
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Nuts
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If it is a non interference motor you could have the piston at TDC and be able turn both camshafts 360deg without anything touching anything else. In the altezza 3sge this is not possible. Thus i dont believe there is any truth in the vvt-i theory you mention. I know you can get to about 2 teeth out on the timing belt before valves start to contact pistons under non vvti advanced circumstances with stock pistons. I only did this on the engine stand, but being that there are cam sensors and crank sensors that ensure cam and crank position, i'd wonder if the motor would even run being that far out. Compare to my build thread at your peril, as that failure situation is quite a bit different. Even if the cambelt on that snapped, it's still an interference motor, and it'd highly likely bend all valves. |
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| cookie | Mar 26 2010, 10:33 AM Post #17 |
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Custom
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Thanks for your'e reply. Like I said it was just a theory so maybe I did just get lucky. |
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| cookie | Mar 26 2010, 06:38 PM Post #18 |
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Custom
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Spoke to the guy that fixed it and he said that the belt didn't snap. The idler pulley mounting bolt came loose and the belt started to work it's way off. When the pulley had come off enough the belt started to skip over the teeth. Fortunately for me it was skipping to the retarded side so by the time the valves opened the piston was on its way down. This is why there was no internal damage. I suppose if anything it is another thing to check when servicing. |
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| Stephen | Mar 26 2010, 09:06 PM Post #19 |
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Altezza Club of Australia
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Although not a good thing to occur, it was a good result
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| greeneyes | Mar 27 2010, 05:49 PM Post #20 |
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Targa Master
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Lucky boy!! Go buy a Lotto ticket! :lol: |
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The Girl's KE70- http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/ How NOT to build a rally car- http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/ | |
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| cookie | Mar 29 2010, 09:46 PM Post #21 |
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Custom
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I did actually but a Lotto ticket but I had a lot more luck with my engine than the 6 numbers. I did get all 6 but they were in different games <_< |
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| DR-JEKL | Mar 29 2010, 10:10 PM Post #22 |
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Drifter
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Christ luckily it didn't cause any major damage!!! I'm sure you earnt that good karma though steve
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| cookie | Mar 30 2010, 12:15 AM Post #23 |
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Custom
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Why is it that things only go wrong when you're selling a car. No sooner have I had the timing belt problem fixed and then worked out the rough running was the plugs, now the oil return hose from the turbo split and dumped just about all the engine oil. Still had 1/4 to 1/3 on the stick and still had oil pressure so nothing bad has happened. It's just that everything seems to have happened after I put the add in Carsales. Have Altezza's got a sixth sense or something? |
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| DR-JEKL | Mar 30 2010, 12:22 AM Post #24 |
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Drifter
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Lol it's a sign from the gods to keep her mate that's all
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