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For Those Running Stacked Head Gaskets...
Topic Started: Apr 1 2010, 12:13 AM (2,252 Views)
Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Possibly take the time to retorque the head...

Tonight while driving home my car started missing and blowing lots of blue smoke, compression tested it and #3 & #4 have very little compression, most of its coming out of the oil breather hose :/

I'm hoping that rather than a cracked head or block I've just got a blown head gasket, I'm pretty sure that the main oil gallery to the head is somewhere in the vicinity of the #3 and #4 pistons, over the last few weeks I've noticed my car is sometimes hard to start after sitting, and the water level in the resiviour has been dropping... there's a small pool of oil in the #4 piston, and a little bit of oil residue in the #3 piston, #1 and #2 are normal.

Going to rip of the head and inspect further, this time I'll be using only one gasket and retorqing the head bolts after a month or so...

Fun Fun :(
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xnickx
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^^ You may thank me ^^
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Bugger to hear, mine still going strong though, no oil or coolant missing.

PS tried to return your call but only got a fax line, tried to text you too but not sure if its your number still.

New rings and headbolts when it was stuck back together? Possibly the rings have given way?
Contacting me for parts

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madaltezza
Sleeper
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or you have blowing da ring landings of your pistions from it going lean or det just a though it kinda sounding like that good luck bro
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IS200-Winnie
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You need to re touque all metal gaskets after 10,000 Km once and only once. This is also why whenever you open up the head you should replace the bolts with arp items as generaly when the stockies come out they have lossed the spring tention because of all the heat cycles wich makes it very hard to accurately torque them.
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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I know I shouldnt be doing it but when you give it a good rev is starts running normally then drops to idle and starts stubling again, also blue smoke starts pouring out of the breather hoses when its revved up enough, hoping its a head gasket, got one to pick up on Saturday thanks to Nick (He's the man!)

Ripping the head off now :)
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Maccabro
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beached az!
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Leiden,Apr 1 2010
10:59 PM
I know I shouldnt be doing it but when you give it a good rev is starts running normally then drops to idle and starts stubling again, also blue smoke starts pouring out of the breather hoses when its revved up enough, hoping its a head gasket, got one to pick up on Saturday thanks to Nick (He's the man!)

Ripping the head off now :)

while you have the head off id make sure you check that your block and head arent warped as well before you go fitting a new gasket. waste of time if they are!

im sure you know this though
altezza 3sge + apexi ax53b60 turbo kit + cwest body kit/ bonnet + modelista angel eye HID head lights +18" enkei NT03 + zeal adjusties + ........................more!
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Yup I'll check that they aren't, a little suspicious that its #4 only though, you can see down the side of the block where the oil has been seeping through the gasket and blowing out the side, I was thinking it might be good to get a new set of head bolts at the same time as these ones have been used a total of 4 times already, probably stretched to hell and slackened off causing the BHG, in that case the head's probably warped but I know a guy Mike who ownes a reconditioning shop and could plane it for $40 or so
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IS200-Winnie
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As I just said never skimp on a good set of head studs esp. ARP for the 3SGE. You normaly can get away with not changing them once but no more its just not worth it. They stress and fatigue way to quickly in that environment and it is the most vital fastener's on the entire car...
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NVD323
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Stock
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just done mine. A engine rebuilder in town recommended using vht copper gasket cement so i did seemed like good shit.
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Worse than I originally thought, Head Gasket was mint, no signs of a blow through or leaking, however the #4 piston wasn't so flash, looks like the rings went and its beaten its self into a pulp against the cylinder bore. The result, a not so flash looking bore with aluminium smudged into it, not sure if its just stuck to the surface or if its eaten into the bore its self :(

At best I could probably get it honed and throw in a new piston, rings, and ST205 rods, or I could get it bored out and find oversized pistons for it. Alternatively I could just go with a shortblock, or even just a bare block...

If you know anyone with a shortblock for sale or something similar could you please txt me on 021 216 9621, I would really appreciate it!
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roman
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3SGEs and 3SGTEs have the exact same rods, generation for generation.

No point in swapping them, unless for aftermarket forged ones.
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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ST205 rods are the last of the beefier looking rods before they went to the thinner looking ones in the Beams, ST215 and ST246
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Maccabro
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beached az!
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id just buy a good complete engine and throw it in, saves having to deal with a engine thats made up of bits and peices of others.

the cost probly makes this not viable though unless you have a spare 1.5k lying about i supose.

how lean does your car run??? is it properly dyno tuned or home tuned??
altezza 3sge + apexi ax53b60 turbo kit + cwest body kit/ bonnet + modelista angel eye HID head lights +18" enkei NT03 + zeal adjusties + ........................more!
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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It runs 14.2:1 AFR during idle and part throttle and leans out to 15.5:1 during cruise at constatant rpm's with high vacuume, at atmosphere pressure its sitting at about 14.0:1, at 8psi its sitting at about 11.8:1 AFR and -4 degrees timing. The damage wasn't from leaning out or detonation it was a dodgy piston that had made contact with the crank counterbalance and taken some out of the bottom of the piston, I think over time the piston was out of balance and slowly rocked against the bore until it had taken off enough meat to damage the ring lands
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greeneyes
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Targa Master
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Quote:
 
it was a dodgy piston that had made contact with the crank counterbalance and taken some out of the bottom of the piston, I think over time the piston was out of balance and slowly rocked against the bore until it had taken off enough meat to damage the ring lands


Wooo.. there's a good lesson for everyone.

I can remember 40years ago putting pistons in a lathe and maching off the skirt base until they were all exactly the same weight..
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Distrb
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Nuts
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Leiden,Apr 7 2010
07:25 AM
The damage wasn't from leaning out or detonation it was a dodgy piston that had made contact with the crank counterbalance and taken some out of the bottom of the piston, I think over time the piston was out of balance and slowly rocked against the bore until it had taken off enough meat to damage the ring lands


What failed and caused the piston skirt to come in contact with the counterweight on the crankshaft?
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roman
Lowered
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I'd say it's probably more of a case of detonation caused ring lands to break, broken ringlands couldnt hold rings/piston square in the bore, bore wore unevenly until piston to crank contact occured.

If I was doing a turbo motor on the cheap I'd just go for an 11:1 auto engine block and reduce the dynamic compression ratio with the intake cam angle rather than stacking head gaskets to reduce the static compression ratio.

I might supercharge mine a lil later on if my car ends up being too reliable and I get bored with nothing to do :P
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Originally when it went pop the first time it bent a rod and the piston base came into contact with the crank balance causing the knocking sound I had posted a while ago.

Being cheap and in a rush I reused this piston in the rebuilt after being told it would be ok, I'd say a total of about 1mm of material was taken off the bottom of the piston where the little end pin goes.

The contact against the bore from the counterbalance rocking the piston could also have fractured the ring or ringlands in that piston causing them to fail under stress, originally there was no damage to the bore.

I'm thinking of picking up a 3SGTE ST205 or ST215 Engine and using the 3SGE Beams sump, engine mounts, and 6 speed box for a RWD 3SGTE conversion, much more reliable in the long run. Then I'll just sell the Beams head and block to someone wanting to do a 87mm stroker or forgies build. Also will be selling the Turbo kit including the Emanage Ultimate.
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Soiled Altezza
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Have heard the Caldina ST215 engine is alot weaker and more prone to problems than the Celica ST205, food for thought.

And have you thought about forged bits in your engine as another option?
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Garage: http://altezza.dualzdesigns.com/viewcar.ph...wner=17&frmpg=0
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Dont really want to muck around with +T anymore, if I can get a 3SGTE up and running then everything will be tuned and factory spec with the stock ECU.

I'm trying to find a ST205 engine but its looking like the ST215 is the more common engine found these days
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Soiled Altezza
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You will find you will get alot less power too. Flatmate just had his ST205 dynod the other day running 13psi and only making 158kw, which is good for a factory car, about the same as what I got on reliable as crap 4psi though.
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Thats through a 4WD transmission though and the 3SGTE's run a really conservative fuel and ignition map, I'm wanting to go with the ST215 as it runs Speed Density instead of a AFM and COP like the Altezza does, plus theres more aftermarket support for future modifications :P
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Soiled Altezza
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Leiden,Apr 12 2010
05:43 PM
Thats through a 4WD transmission though and the 3SGTE's run a really conservative fuel and ignition map, I'm wanting to go with the ST215 as it runs Speed Density instead of a AFM and COP like the Altezza does, plus theres more aftermarket support for future modifications :P

Wish you luck on it, will be interesting to see to say the least :D

Feel like swapping looms too? :P
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Hardout! I'm picking up the 3SGTE this weekend, should make for a cool project, almost wanting to pick up some forged rods to chuck in while its out of the engine bay but the Missus just wants it going again, wanted me to go back to N/A... Bwahaha Nah.

What do you mean swapping looms bro?
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Soiled Altezza
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Leiden,Apr 15 2010
07:36 PM
Hardout! I'm picking up the 3SGTE this weekend, should make for a cool project, almost wanting to pick up some forged rods to chuck in while its out of the engine bay but the Missus just wants it going again, wanted me to go back to N/A... Bwahaha Nah.

What do you mean swapping looms bro?

Your one to put the ecu in the cabin :P

Forged eagle rods through MAC at Fortyone for good price.
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