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Aaargh! Greeneyes Won't Start!
Topic Started: Jul 8 2011, 06:51 PM (7,840 Views)
Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Tap into the IGT wire and reference against earth, its a 12v signal as far as I know

I think it may have done what my mates one did when the VVTi mechanism failed, it had very little compression but it started fine on the other hand
Project Thread
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greeneyes
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Targa Master
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Well, with all the mucking around the battery died... that meant I had to move it to the other side of the garage so I could hook the KE70 onto it... and it had a flat rear tyre from a slow puncture.

Anyway, tyre off and to my horror the tread had been abraded away to the wire on the inside and it was lifting off the casing for 75mm. The bald bit was well around the edge & up the sidewall, far further than I thought ever contacted the road. I had the tyre shop take the Falken 452s off and fit a pair of half-worn Toyo T1-Rs I'd swapped over a few years back. He said the problem was that the Falken is a square edge tyre whereas the Toyo is a round edge tyre and distributes the weight better.

That was friday, and when I shot down on Monday to get a photo they had already scrapped the tyres from last week unfortunately.

So we push it and used a jack under the diff to move it!
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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greeneyes
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I had checked the resistances in my coil packs against Cookie's and they all read very much the same, so while I had it apart I hooked all 4 plugs up and watched them fire again. Actually, only some fired well, so I picked one that had a fat spark and tried-

All plugs (new and old) in that coil-

That coil and a good plug on all cylinders-

Once cyl and one good plug against all coil packs.

Turns out all cylinders get correct pulses, all coil packs work fine and half the plugs are dodgy. So it has a mixture of brand-new plugs and old plugs fitted but still won't run! The petrol fumes were strong enough for thoughts of exploding garages by the time I'd finished.

It did actually overtake the starter motor and run for maybe a second all by itself then died.

So, I haven't finished on the throttle body setup yet, before I start calling in random professionals. I'm not sure if it a mechanic's job or an auto-electrician's. The guy who changed a driveshaft UJ on the Pintara last week said the best local sparkie wouldn't look at it without an open cheque...
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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greeneyes
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OK, I checked the resistances on the throttle body as I opened it and both the accelerator position sensor & the throttle position sensor have variable resistance as the throttle is opened.

890ohms up to 1000 & 540ohms up to 1100.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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greeneyes
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..and after months of trying I finally got a mate around with a long compression meter.

The two cylinders we checked have compressions around 90psi.....

So, next job I assume is to take the tappet cover off and actually time the valves against the crank, as the cam wheels are timed fine and the motor was running great when it was last turned off. Maybe the VVTi unit has packed up and a cam is not returning to the zero position.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Celica RA45
Lowered
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or the shim clearences have shut tight on the inlet and valves are remaining open ,while doing comp test
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greeneyes
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I read today that there is a spring inside that turns the cam to the high-speed setting.. which is opposite to what I expected, I thought the default would be the retarded position for starting and low-speed running. These was also the comment that they fly apart if you strip them!

Anyone know which way it is sprung?
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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greeneyes
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Well, doesn't seem to be sprung either way. The exhaust cam is 'tight' on the VVTi unit and will turn the whole motor back and forth if I use a spanner on the cam.

The inlet is "loose" in that I can turn the cam forwards and the VVTi doesn't turn, and if I turn the motor the cam stays stationary until it catches up with the VVTi. I can see it doesn't need a spring, the valve springs will always push the cam backwards against the direction of rotation, so it should automatically return to the zero position.

Tappets are all 8-9 for inlets and 11-12 for exhaust, with one at a tight 13.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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greeneyes
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Well, a leakdown test points to the burnt exhaust valves theory. That's why it will run all day at 100kph, (admittedly with reduced power but Mrs Greeneyes wouldn't notice) however it can't quite start.

So head off in the next week or so and find out why valves burn out in 120,000km.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Leiden
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NZ, Whangarei
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Thats a bummer!

Some aftermarket steel ones should do the trick
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greeneyes
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Well, maybe a bit longer than a week... I am up to getting the VVTi units off, and have just been smacking them with a lead-filled plastic hammer, to no avail.

So I'm going to make a puller for the exhaust one, I can bolt it onto a pair of the Torx screw holes to pull it off. A bit of solid steel bar with a threaded hole in the middle & I can push against the original bolt head.

Any suggestions for the inlet side?

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The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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xnickx
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^^ You may thank me ^^
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Undo the big allen head bolts in the center of the pullies. DO NOT dismantle the pullies. You cant put them back together
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Contacting me for parts

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greeneyes
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They're already out Nick.

I drilled a bit of alloy L-section nicely, put the VVTi hex bolt back in until it was a couple of mm off its seat, then put a 10mm bolt & nut up against it. As I did up the bolt, the VVTi hollow hex held my 10mm nut still and the bolt pushed against the top of the orig hex, pulling the outer case away from the cam.

Sounds good, but it just bent the lightweight alloy!

So I've just drilled a spare seat belt mount bracket, nice 3mm steel plate and will finish it when I get back this afternoon.

The inlet I might have to use spacer tubes down to a pair of the torx screws. I assume they have Locktited the bloody things onto the cams, it seems they did a lot of that in the factory. Actually, there should be a Woodruff key in there to take up the torque stress as it turns.. unless they tapered the cam end...
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Celica RA45
Lowered
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big shifter on cam and big allen key and you can buy the hex ends that are socket ended as well
ps if you need any valves have full sets here 320 a set of 16 with postage

and the other question is the japanese only keep there cars for a few years and if they keep them they replace the valves at 100,000 kays
as even in std form they will pound into the seat

also cam is held in with bolt as nick has said plus it has a dowel that stop the cam from spinning
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greeneyes
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I got the big allen bolts out a couple of days ago, Datsun 1600 hex head tool on the inlet, and a 14mm head bolt and two locking nuts on the exhaust one. That doesn't mean the VVTi units will come off however...

Quote:
 
plus it has a dowel that stop the cam from spinning


I expected so- is the VVTi unit grooved so it slides off over the dowel??

I might chase you up for those valves thanks...

Let me go make my puller MkII...
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Celica RA45
Lowered
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if you have the inside bolts off on both cams then a big screw driver should go behind the front cam journal and in between the vvti pulley and slide forward
but as nick has said there are 2 bolts on each cam .1st the cover that goes over with the gasket and then the bolt that is inside in your picture
same allen key size as the inlet oil cover
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greeneyes
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Faaark now you tell me! :lol:

Actually, I made my MKII puller and set it up, then moved the floodlight down to take a photo....

THEN I saw the 10mm hex bolts down inside the unit!! What I thought we the bolts holding them on were only covers!

So I have the exhaust unit off, which slid off smoothly like a well-engineered piece of Japanese equipment, but the inlet allen bolt is too tight for my ratchet. I'll borrow a big bar tomorrow, now I know what I'm doing!!

Posted Image
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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greeneyes
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Finally!!! The water arrangement on the back of the head nearly ruined the back of both hands, but its down at a head shop being looked at now.

Definitely the back two cyls are dark and sooty around the exhausts compared to the front two.

Posted Image
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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cpufix
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Paraparaumu, Wellington
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Mmm 3 & 4 don't look to happy.

Hope you get this sorted seems to be taking a while.

Cheers
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greeneyes
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Taking forever Colin, but luckily I don't need it on the road.

So, head shop said the valves are being held open by carbon deposits, they are not burnt and neither are the seats. So $250 does a quick cleanup of valves and seats and a light skim, which is great. ..... but $400 to set the tappets!

I would've expected carbon buildup from daily driving around town only, not a career of long trips.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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jeremyflower
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Anything but soccer mom...
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greeneyes,Nov 15 2011
10:22 PM
Taking forever Colin, but luckily I don't need it on the road.

So, head shop said the valves are being held open by carbon deposits, they are not burnt and neither are the seats. So $250 does a quick cleanup of valves and seats and a light skim, which is great. ..... but $400 to set the tappets!

I would've expected carbon buildup from daily driving around town only, not a career of long trips.

Well it could've been a worse result... and considerably more expensive.

That being said, overhead cam tappets must be a real bitch to set up at that price!! Glad it'll only take about 30mins max for the Elf ;-)
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assassin10000
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Soccer Mom
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So... set the tappets yourself. Time consuming, but not all that difficult.

Andrew
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greeneyes
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Assuming they'd make all the tappet gaps smaller I'd need to buy 16 shims at $18 each over here or have Nick send a set over at $15/. Then buy a valve spring compressor, I left mine in NZ when we moved.

I can see it taking a couple of hours to assemble it without shims, measure it, measure shims and grind them down to what is needed, then assemble it all again. $200 per hour...

The difference between buying them and having them do it was about $100, and I figure they'll do a better job.

You're right Jeremy, this is the first non-adjustable head I've ever worked on, Datsun & BMW had adjustable OHC.
The Girl's KE70-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/42407-the-girls-ke70/
How NOT to build a rally car-
http://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/64027...ld-a-rally-car/
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Celica RA45
Lowered
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the head should only be shimmed up ,when its bolted to the block or they will change and shims are 10 each give me your sizes as i will most likely have these in stock glenn
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Black Tez
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The ORIGINAL Black Tez!!
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greeneyes,Nov 15 2011
10:22 PM
Taking forever Colin, but luckily I don't need it on the road.

So, head shop said the valves are being held open by carbon deposits, they are not burnt and neither are the seats. So $250 does a quick cleanup of valves and seats and a light skim, which is great. ..... but $400 to set the tappets!

I would've expected carbon buildup from daily driving around town only, not a career of long trips.

Apart from cleaning up the mess, isn't it important to work out and fix whatever it is that makes those two pots run dirty? I seem to recall that you only measured compression on two pots ... would have been good to see results for all four ... maybe the two dirty cyls are getting too much oil past the rings?
ALTEZZA RS200Z- LEXUS WITH ATTITUDE!
NOW UPDATED TO IS250 LTD F-SPORT
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