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http://s4.zetaboards.com/lexusaltezzaclub/topic/1148393/1/#new



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Oil In Intercooler And Pipng? Blowen Turbo?; turbo problems
Topic Started: Jan 6 2012, 05:13 PM (2,618 Views)
Tezz-Winnie
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If you stack your gaskets your CP will be lower (There is a thread on the forums that will tell you exactly by how much) which means you’re able to maintain the same peak cylinder pressure with more volume so in essence yes you can run more boost but the TD04H for example will struggle to maintain over 1Bar at high RPM due to its small compressor and AR anyway.

As far as the retune goes you don’t need to but you definitely want to so you can make back some power by advancing the timing a little and tuning your fuel ratio for your desired boost pressure so it’s not all over the place.
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tezznu
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will i need a head plane if i stack the gasket? with a good tunr and a stacked gasket what sort of psi cud i run?
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Tezz-Winnie
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Stick to 10PSI....

Ask them to check to see if both the block and head are true. If they are out then you will need to get them machined.
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tezznu
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sweet 10 psi be good so if they are nice and true js seal up and bolt torque back up??
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Tezz-Winnie
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Yes.
Just be careful with getting decent fuel and try and get your cp down under 10.5:1 or you will detonate and your going to be back to square one...
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tezznu
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we have ultimate 98 from bp so shud be ok i hope fingers crossed
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yojimbo
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Ultimate is fairly consistent. Shell 98 is ok too though I would only get it from a high volume servo - to be more confident it is fresh.

TBH - Comp ratios are irrelevant with appropriate tuning. Stacked head gaskets is not a great way to prep for turbocharging.

With the right turbo and good tuning you would be worse off with the gaskets over simply leaving it unopened, a low boost / high comp motor can make the same power and have better driveabillity.

People equate boost with performance rather than just building a motor that drives well and makes power.

I understand there is an established formula for this setup - I'd just talk to those who have actually done it and follow thier lead. Expect to change a few gaskets along the way.

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Toymods Dyno Day 19 - Killerwatt King
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Tezz-Winnie
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Quote:
 
TBH - Comp ratios are irrelevant with appropriate tuning
Completly untrue. Cylinders have a max pressure threshold, you breach that and say goodbye to your rods and big end bearings no matter how much money you throw at engine management.

yojimbo,Feb 29 2012
09:01 AM
With the right turbo and good tuning you would be worse off with the gaskets over simply leaving it unopened, a low boost / high comp motor can make the same power and have better driveabillity.

People equate boost with performance rather than just building a motor that drives well and makes power.

Couldnt have said it better....

Tezznu I pretty much just gave you all the information I have gathered together from my own techical understaning, reseach and asking the same questions you have as I am waiting to sort out my Greddy kit. My experience is based on tuning my GT4 and the hits and misses I had with that.

When I do things I make sure I ask people who have been there done that and quite often you will get a better response in private then on a public forum. There is an entire thread (http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclub/index.php?showtopic=7121) that has plenty of information regarding this exact set up and its variants.

What I came up with is there is no quick easy way to get the beams making real power with forced induction.
If you want to run anything more then 200Kw (or there abouts) with your kit your going to need to run stronger rods, bearings and head studs and low CP forged pistons and you would need something like a link or motech at this point. Then you hit the wall at somewhere around 350Kw with the J160 (this was the figure of my friends 1GGTE BMW and he was going through them like butter but we all know its tourque not power that kills a gb) and your crank is more likely to brake at this point too.
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yojimbo
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There are plenty of competition motors that use forced induction AND comp ratios well over 13:1. It is good tuning that keeps them alive.

With modern EFI and an almost infinite range of turbos available - I would encourage modifiers to look at higher compressions and correctly sized turbos with appropriate tuning to make the best street engines.

Toyota Nats 5 x Top Toyota
Toymods Dyno Day 19 - Killerwatt King
Supra Dyno Day 2015 Outright HP and Torque
11.10@141.34mph (0-400m)
22.048@164mph (0-1000m)

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Tezz-Winnie
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They also run race gas, ultra strong rods and cranks worth more then the car itself. No comparison. Higher the compression ratio the more likely you will suffer pre detonation.
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tezznu
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id be more than happy with 200kw (am currently about 180) so whats the best and easyest way to acheive??? i take i have to use brand new gaskets silly question i know but some off the guys in my fabrication shop said i could re use them ae
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Tezz-Winnie
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Ofcourse they said you can reuse them :( In other words they dont want to wait around for your gaskets to arrive.
You mean the best or the quick cheap unreliable and nasty way to get to 200Kw?

Quick and cheap way is to stack two stock ones together and pray for the best.

Better way is to upgrage to caldina injectors, fuel pump, EBC and use a 2301-RT045 HKS head gasket wich would lowwer your cp to 10.5:1 and ALWAYS use 98ron.

Best way is to get eagle Ibeam rods, toda low cp pistons stock gasket, sard injectors and sard fuel rail with a link system and high flow your turbo (that would get you around 250Kw maybe but the TD04H isnt the best turbo to begin with you would be better off with a GT2860RS).

All depends on how much your willing to spend....
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tezznu
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Am using some 550 denso injectors walbro 500 pump and a tial 38 gate so what sort of price for that gasket?
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tezznu
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Have also got a gtt with 550 denso injectors link plug in and 1 bar and it's eating my altezza :(
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Tezz-Winnie
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Sorry couldnt quite comprehend that last message?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=2301-RT045
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tezznu
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sorry was on iphone i also have a gtt caldina with a link plug in ecu deso 550 injectors and a bar of boost and it eats my altezza
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tezznu
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shit that gasket is expensive haha can i buy a .8 and a 1.2 factory ones or are thy onli .8?
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Tezz-Winnie
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No you cant you have to buy two of the same sized gaskets if your going to stack up. two stock gaskets will get you to 10.5:1. I wouldnt stack any higher then 1mm per gasket.

Ofcourse it eats your altezza! Its an awd with a AWD 4th gen 3SGTE, a good friend of mine just sold his Gtt and that was making 200Kw atw with a few minor mods!! Hell my old GT4 with a disco potato and a fmic would eat my altezza!

What did you do with your stock caldina injectors i could be interested in buying them!
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tezznu
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Il have a dig round haha il get some factory gaskets on there way who is best to get them from?
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Soiled Altezza
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Nick from NST can't be beat on prices (if you are a paid up VIP member). Stacked headgaskets are fine as they are metal and have been proven with many people on here.

Would rape my flatmates WRC ST205 (running 1 bar) when I was at 200kw obviously not off the line...

And high compression is fine with a good tune, you just lose alot more timing to add more boost.
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Tezz-Winnie
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Quote:
 
And high compression is fine with a good tune, you just lose alot more timing to add more boost.


Retardation of your ignition timing lowers you dynamic compression ratio. I would rather lower my static compression any day....

St205 are fast cars but my ST185 was far from stock ;) 180KW at ALL 4 wheels running 1Bar...
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yojimbo
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Tezz-Winnie,Mar 1 2012
09:06 AM

I would rather lower my static compression any day....


Why?

it is the Static Comp which will make it more responsive off boost, spool earlier, and generally improve drivabillity.

The days of low comp turbo pigs are over.
Toyota Nats 5 x Top Toyota
Toymods Dyno Day 19 - Killerwatt King
Supra Dyno Day 2015 Outright HP and Torque
11.10@141.34mph (0-400m)
22.048@164mph (0-1000m)

Built by ...
JMR Race Engineering - Toyota Specialist
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Tezz-Winnie
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Because if you lower your static compression you can keep your cylinder pressure on your compression stroke simmilar to what you had at 11.5:1 and still maintain a decent ignition timing.

Wrong, Dynamic CP is what makes your car responsive and easier to drive. Not only that, changing your ignition timing stuffs around your cam advance and vvti. Fail

Oh and whats your compression ratio at Matt :) anything over 1Bar and greater then 10:1 on pump gas is asking for trouble....
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tezznu
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so stacking my gaskets will make it lose response???
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Tezz-Winnie
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Ofcourse it will but you will get more power from the increase in boost. Its a trade off. Thats why some people prefer High comp NA engines over Turbos.

Keep in mind if you retard your timing by stupid amounts (you will need to if you want to run that much boost) your going to make your car more of a dog to drive then stacking your gaskets will.

11.5:1 + >6 PSI = bang. If you have the money just stack your gaskets champ. If you want to do it properly go buy the HKS gasket (will give same SCR but more reliable). You will have to retard your ignition timing but not as much.

Go look at every boosted engine Nissan, Toyota and Mitsu have ever released in a production car and if you find one that has more then 9.5:1 SCR let me know so i can buy it :)
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