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Super Smash Bros. 4 Discussion Thread; An entire thread dedicated to specific discussions in regards to the next installment in the franchise!
Topic Started: 27 Jan 2012, 03:38 AM (6,539 Views)
Pokemon Z RPG
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The Super Smash Bros. 4 Discussion Thread!
Brought To You By Pokemon Z RPG

CURRENT TOPIC: WII U GAMEPAD AND ASYMMETRIC GAMEPLAY IN SMASH BROS.
JOIN THE DISCUSSION HERE


This thread is here solely as an intelligent discussion on the next installment of the Smash Bros. franchise. This is a little experiment of sorts to see how this design turns out.

Basically, I will bring up a specific topic in regards to the upcoming Smash Bros. game. Once I feel like that topic has almost overdone its welcome, I will present a second specific topic and so on. I'm not sure if this will go well, but if it does I will definitely make more discussion topics, plus there is always room for changes to be made here and there if you have any ideas. Anyway, let's get the ball rolling...

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The Super Smash Bros. 4 Discussion Topics Archive
Topic #1: The Legend of Zelda Characters in Smash Bros.
Participants: Pokemon Z RPG, LuIgI tHe SaTuRn, MariovSonic, Kouzetsu

  • Started: January 26, 2012
  • Finished: February 18, 2012
  • This Topic Began HERE
  • Endgame Accolades #1 Can Be Found HERE

Topic #2: Pokemon Characters in Smash Bros.
Participants: Pokemon Z RPG, MariovSonic, Kouzetsu, chronokatz

  • Started: February 21, 2012
  • Finished: February 28, 2012
  • This Topic Began HERE
  • Endgame Accolades #2 Can Be Found HERE

Topic #3: The Forgotten Characters in Smash Bros.
Participants: Pokemon Z RPG, MariovSonic, LuIgI tHe SaTuRn, chronokatz, Kouzetsu

  • Started: March 10, 2012
  • Finished: On-going
  • This Topic Began HERE

    • Sub-Topic #1: Mr. Game & Watch
    • Participants: Pokemon Z RPG, MariovSonic, LuIgI tHe SaTuRn, chronokatz, Kouzetsu



    • Started: March 10, 2012
    • Finished: March 18, 2012
    • This Topic Began HERE
    • Endgame Accolades #3 Can Be Found HERE


    • Sub-Topic #2: R.O.B.
    • Participants: Pokemon Z RPG, MariovSonic, Kouzetsu, LuIgI tHe SaTuRn, chronokatz

    • Started: March 24, 2012
    • Finished: April 3, 2012
    • This Topic Began HERE


    • Sub-Topic #3: Captain Falcon
    • Participants: Pokemon Z RPG, MariovSonic, chronokatz, LuIgI tHe SaTuRn, Kouzetsu

    • Started: April 14, 2012
    • Finished: June 9, 2012
    • This Topic Began HERE


Topic #4: Wii U GamePad and Asymmetric Gameplay in Smash Bros.
Participants: Pokemon Z RPG, MariovSonic

  • Started: June 9, 2012
  • Finished: On-going
  • This Topic Began HERE


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    Topic #1: The Legend of Zelda Characters in Smash Bros.
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    This is a pretty general topic, but I bring up this topic because I am intrigued to see what you guys think on this matter. First, do you think Link and Zelda will don their new Skyward Sword looks in the next Smash Bros. game? And what do you think will come of Twilight Link as well as Toon Link?

    I personally think it is necessary for them to implement the new looks onto Link and Zelda because of how outdated they will start to seem now. Plus, Zelda's freaking adorable in Skyward Sword. However, I could see one of the two Links making a return as well in the new game. I think there are two very possible options here: Keep Twilight Link as well as Skyward Sword Link in because Twilight Link is the most recent home console Link of the two. OR Kick out Twilight Link and keep Toon Link because 1. he is a much more unique-looking character than Twilight Link and 2. at this point in time Toon Link is almost like Link's handheld counterpart and he is also still pretty up-to-date in terms of the Links. Although, I don't think it is probable that there will be another Zelda game starring Toon Link for quite some time now that the 3DS has the capabilities to have a much more detailed Link and that might be reason enough for Nintendo to give him the boot since they might not want to promote something they're getting rid of.

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    So sorry about all of that rambling, but before I end this post I would also like to ask another question that you may or may not answer as well: Will Ganondorf be in the next Smash Bros. game?

    I personally think he will 100% be in the next Smash Bros. game, but the reason many argue he will not be is because, well, he wasn't in Skyward Sword at all. The reason I am so confident that he will be back is because of the fact that Ganondorf is here to stay. Just because he wasn't in one entry of the series doesn't mean he isn't going to be in future games which he certainly is. And if Nintendo were that strict about their character selections, we wouldn't still have outdated characters like Ice Climbers or Mr. Game & Watch hanging around with no new games as far as the eyes can see (and believe me, that will be a future discussion topic).


    Anyway, please tell me what you think in response to these questions and this topic as a whole! Obviously you don't need to do near as much extensive typing as I did. I did that mainly to jumpstart this thread with a good amount of content. I just want to hear your two cents, even if someone else's opinion might look like two dollars in comparison. xP

    Enjoy the thread and let me know any topic ideas you may have as well!
    Edited by Pokemon Z RPG, 13 Jun 2012, 09:19 PM.
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Mama Luigi
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Kumatora, Duster, and Boney as playable characters/support, please! And me!

Ganondorf needs his sword. Or else Nintendo will die.
I wonder who else will join as a playable character for Zelda, I can name some supports, but no playable characters.
Supports: 7 sages, Hyrule King, Jabu-Jabu, ect.
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MariovSonic
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Wow! Great topic you got there! I can't wait to see all the different directions this goes!

Now, on to the first subject...

I'm not quite sure what style Link will assume. Comparing Skyward Sword's Link to Twlight Princess's Link side-by-side... there's really not a huge difference outside of facial structure and minor details.

We also have to take into account SSB's graphical style. Let's look at Mario, for a clear example:
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Mario, as he appears in Super Smash Bros. Brawl
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Mario, as he appears in Super Mario Galaxy

The Brawl one obviously features darker, more detailed textures. By the time you add those detailed to SS's Link, he's pretty much Brawl's Link with very slight differences. So I imagine he'll look pretty much the same as he did previously (only, you know, HD).

Now with Zelda, her Skyward Sword design is a lot more of a drastic than Link's. So I'm not sure what they'll do in her case. The most obvious roadblock against her SS incarnation is Sheik. He (she? Seriously, I'm not opening that can of worms XD) might need to be revamped as well in order to better suit the Zelda's appearance. I guess they could drop Zelda's Sheik transformation in order to spice things up, but for many reasons I can't see that happen.

But I'm sure we can expect something from Skyward Sword, be it character designs or otherwise. We'll definitely see a stage based on it, at very least. My bet's on a Skyloft-styled one. It would be pretty cool to see loftwings soaring all over the place, perhaps even interacting with the battle at hand. I'm somewhat interested to see how they'd differentiate it from Skyworld, if that stage does in fact makes a reappearance...

As for Toon Link, I'm not sure if he'll return. I suppose it depends on whether they want to cut down on "clone" characters or not. To be fair, I do think Toon Link is one of the better clones in the series. He manages to bring an entirely unique appearance (unlike Young Link) as well as a radical change in speed/power/health/etc. I wouldn't mind him showing up, it just depends on where they go with it.

I'm guessing Ganondorf will show up again, and if he does, I'm with LtS. He needs his friggin' sword. Why he doesn't have it, I don't know. Maybe it's because they wanted to prevent him from becoming another Link 2.0? I don't know, but I'm sure it's possible to keep his sword and still give him a unique moveset. He can still use magic if you really want, perhaps give him his awesome tennis ball ability or something. He can even still continue to use brute force, kicking the opponent if they get too close or whatnot. Just give him his sword, please! ::D:
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MariovSonic
 
Wow! Great topic you got there! I can't wait to see all the different directions this goes!

Thanks! As do I!

MariovSonic
 
I'm not quite sure what style Link will assume. Comparing Skyward Sword's Link to Twlight Princess's Link side-by-side... there's really not a huge difference outside of facial structure and minor details.

That is somewhat true, but if you take into account the in-depth characterization of Skyward Sword versus the sort of shallow personality from Twilight Princess, they are almost completely different personalities with what I see as pretty distinct looks.

MariovSonic
 
The Brawl one obviously features darker, more detailed textures. By the time you add those detailed to SS's Link, he's pretty much Brawl's Link with very slight differences. So I imagine he'll look pretty much the same as he did previously (only, you know, HD).

Wow, I didn't even take that into account! I don't think he will look the same as he did in Brawl, however. I think he will be a lot more cartoony versus serious, since Skyward Sword Link pretty much is the perfect cross between Twilight Princess Link and Toon Link. So, all in all I think that perhaps Link in the next Smash Bros. will be almost like an entirely new Link once they add the darker textures. Plus, let's not forget the changes they will probably make to match said HD because how high-def can you really go with Skyward Sword Link?

MariovSonic
 
Now with Zelda, her Skyward Sword design is a lot more of a drastic than Link's. So I'm not sure what they'll do in her case. The most obvious roadblock against her SS incarnation is Sheik. He (she? Seriously, I'm not opening that can of worms XD) might need to be revamped as well in order to better suit the Zelda's appearance. I guess they could drop Zelda's Sheik transformation in order to spice things up, but for many reasons I can't see that happen.

That is a bit of a predicament, actually. The way I look at it is that, aside from the Smash Bros. games, Sheik has only appeared in Ocarina of Time which leads me to believe they don't have that much of a reason to keep Sheik around. There is also the fact that Ocarina of Time 3D is a pretty new release, so that might be a good excuse to keep her. So unless they plan on bringing Sheik back into the main Legend of Zelda series (which I don't actually see happening anytime soon), they might throw her out all together just to make things easier on themselves. Also to consider is; How many people actually play as Sheik? I honestly haven't run into really any Sheik players and even though my main right now is Zelda, I never find myself wanting to switch to Sheik. I'm just curious how many Sheik players you have encountered, or how many times you play as her yourself.

I think I have a pretty awesome remedy to the situation, but I think I might make a whole topic dedicated to it within this dicsussion thread later down the line, so I'm not going to mention it just yet.

MariovSonic
 
But I'm sure we can expect something from Skyward Sword, be it character designs or otherwise. We'll definitely see a stage based on it, at very least. My bet's on a Skyloft-styled one. It would be pretty cool to see loftwings soaring all over the place, perhaps even interacting with the battle at hand. I'm somewhat interested to see how they'd differentiate it from Skyworld, if that stage does in fact makes a reappearance...

I don't see Skyword returning as a stage, or at least not in that mess of a form it is in Brawl, especially since Skyloft seems like almost a guaranteed stage at this point and they could potentially be very similar, but I would love to see a Skyloft stage. It would be great to have much more varied and interactive stages in the future, but since this topic is technically about the Zelda characters themselves, I won't go into too much detail... for now.

MariovSonic
 
As for Toon Link, I'm not sure if he'll return. I suppose it depends on whether they want to cut down on "clone" characters or not. To be fair, I do think Toon Link is one of the better clones in the series. He manages to bring an entirely unique appearance (unlike Young Link) as well as a radical change in speed/power/health/etc. I wouldn't mind him showing up, it just depends on where they go with it.

If they really wanted to cut down on clone characters, characters such as Falco and Wolf would need entire move changes almost, and I just don't see them giving themselves that much extra work when they could be focusing on adding completely new content. As for Toon Link himself, I feel the same way. He was my main for the large majority of my Super Smash Bros. Brawl career and he had a completely different feel from regular Link, who I actually wasn't much of a fan of because of how heavy he felt in comparison. So, I still see a possibility of his appearance in some way. I am curious to see how you would feel about the re-addition of another Young Link/OoT-style Link to kind of go with the recent remake of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS. Do you think it is a possibility?

I wouldn't mind seeing an Ocarina of Time Link added next to whatever Skyward Sword/Twilight Link they conjure up because of how unique he might feel in comparison of the new Links as opposed to how he felt in Melee to the very similar Link.

Don't forget to take into account the movesets, either. They could actually vary the Links very much by giving this Ocarina of Time Link (or Toon Link, if they went that route) the classic moveset, while offering this Skyward Sword Link a wealth of new possibilities what with all of the new items that were introduced in Skyward Sword. I think it could prove pretty interesting.

LuIgI tHe SaTuRn
 
Ganondorf needs his sword. Or else Nintendo will die.

MariovSonic
 
He needs his friggin' sword.

I definitely agree on this point. Ganondorf felt like a sluggish piece of crap in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, so this could be very helpful in his potential revamp. Think of some of the other characters, though. Both Captain Falcon and Solid Snake have guns in their holsters with which they refuse to shoot. These solid components could be useful in showing more diversity in their movesets and possibly helping to rid the world of Smash Bros. clones.




...Phew.


P.S. I'll just have you know, I am currently in the process of brainstorming some good "award" ideas that I will most likely use at the end of each topic we do, including "Most Talkative", "Least Talkative", "Most Argued Subject", and much more. It should be a blast.
Edited by Pokemon Z RPG, 28 Jan 2012, 08:03 PM.
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Mama Luigi
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Well, because of OoT 3D, Shiek has more of a chance to return, and WHAAAAT?!! EVERYONE I know that plays Brawl ALWAYS uses Sheik instead of Zelda! With my friend, it's either Samus or Sheik.
Young Link could have MANY moves that Adult Link doesn't, due to the fact that ADULT LINK CAN'T USE HALF OF YOUNG LINK'S ITEMS. There you go, clone remover right there.
Maybe Mewtwo should come back, he's hidden in all that data in Brawl. (along with 5 perfectly good songs that should have been in Brawl.)
I AM getting sick of clones, but not as long as they have variety, like Luigi. I like to use Luigi.
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LuIgI tHe SaTuRn
30 Jan 2012, 02:51 PM
WHAAAAT?!! EVERYONE I know that plays Brawl ALWAYS uses Sheik instead of Zelda! With my friend, it's either Samus or Sheik.
I never said Sheik isn't played at all, I was simply stating that no one I've personally played with plays as her, so it's interesting to hear that you have plenty of people that play as Sheik.

LuIgI tHe SaTuRn
 
Maybe Mewtwo should come back, he's hidden in all that data in Brawl.
Of course I would love to see Mewtwo make a return, but it absolutely isn't a possibility as far as I'm concerned. Nintendo seems to be starting a trend by doing Mewtwo for and then Lucario for Brawl, so I am predicting a 5th generation Pokemon, particularly Zoroark, as the replacement of Lucario for the next one.

Also, just realized that Mewtwo has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so let's try to get back on topic.
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Mama Luigi
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Sorry. :3
Unless a new installment in the New Hyrule series comes out, Toon Link is probably not going to come back.
Toon Ganondorf, anyone?
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MariovSonic
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That is somewhat true, but if you take into account the in-depth characterization of Skyward Sword versus the sort of shallow personality from Twilight Princess, they are almost completely different personalities with what I see as pretty distinct looks.

I was going more off of appearance than personality, since SSB seems to exist in a separate universe altogether. But yeah.

As a bit of a side-note, I don't think Twilight Princess Link was shallow per se. He seemed to emote... it's just his emotions looked derpy came of as way less expressive.

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That is a bit of a predicament, actually. The way I look at it is that, aside from the Smash Bros. games, Sheik has only appeared in Ocarina of Time which leads me to believe they don't have that much of a reason to keep Sheik around. There is also the fact that Ocarina of Time 3D is a pretty new release, so that might be a good excuse to keep her. So unless they plan on bringing Sheik back into the main Legend of Zelda series (which I don't actually see happening anytime soon), they might throw her out all together just to make things easier on themselves. Also to consider is; How many people actually play as Sheik? I honestly haven't run into really any Sheik players and even though my main right now is Zelda, I never find myself wanting to switch to Sheik. I'm just curious how many Sheik players you have encountered, or how many times you play as her yourself.
I've had the same experiences LtS has in that Sheik seems to be as popular a choice as regular Zelda.

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I don't see Skyword returning as a stage, or at least not in that mess of a form it is in Brawl, especially since Skyloft seems like almost a guaranteed stage at this point and they could potentially be very similar, but I would love to see a Skyloft stage. It would be great to have much more varied and interactive stages in the future, but since this topic is technically about the Zelda characters themselves, I won't go into too much detail... for now.
Which kind of brings up what Kid Icarus-inspired stage might replace Skyworld? Pit will certainly return, so some sort of representation will be present. I guess we can start guessing locals once Kid Icarus: Uprising is out...

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I am curious to see how you would feel about the re-addition of another Young Link/OoT-style Link to kind of go with the recent remake of Ocarina of Time for the 3DS. Do you think it is a possibility?
I, personally, prefer Toon Link to Young Link for reasons mentioned in my first post. He simply looks -and by extension, feels- a lot more unique than just "Link, only as a kid" (or "Link, only slightly different" if the OoT Link approach is taken).

But that said, I suppose it depends on whether cell-shading will be used in future Zelda titles, and therefore kept in the public consciousness. I personally can't see Nintendo ditching the look (although we might have a bit of a wait until the next one is release), especially for the games where Link's a kid. But it is definitely a possibility it will be dropped; the 3DS can handle much more than the DS could, after all.

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Don't forget to take into account the movesets, either. They could actually vary the Links very much by giving this Ocarina of Time Link (or Toon Link, if they went that route) the classic moveset, while offering this Skyward Sword Link a wealth of new possibilities what with all of the new items that were introduced in Skyward Sword. I think it could prove pretty interesting.
I would be completely for a re-haul of either/both "normal" Link and "whateverLinktheydecidetogowith" Link. There are a ton of different items in the Zelda series, so I can't see why they don't spread them out between the two more often. Perhaps give "normal" Link the beetle from SS. Meanwhile, give Link #2 the boomerang. This would make Link #1 have a longer, more controllable attack range with the expensive of being open to damage, while Link #2 trades the control for more quick agile move. I dunno, it's just an example.

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I definitely agree on this point. Ganondorf felt like a sluggish piece of crap in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, so this could be very helpful in his potential revamp. Think of some of the other characters, though. Both Captain Falcon and Solid Snake have guns in their holsters with which they refuse to shoot. These solid components could be useful in showing more diversity in their movesets and possibly helping to rid the world of Smash Bros. clones.
Ganondorf is by far the biggest offender of not resembling his games' fighting style, and it's a shame other characters share that trait. I think they did a relatively good job with converting Snake into the series, although I do think more gun-based moves would be great and help further define him as a fighter. As far as Captain Falcon goes, his gun is not nearly as iconic to him as Snake, but it's nevertheless a bother that it's referenced but not used.

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P.S. I'll just have you know, I am currently in the process of brainstorming some good "award" ideas that I will most likely use at the end of each topic we do, including "Most Talkative", "Least Talkative", "Most Argued Subject", and much more. It should be a blast.
That sounds like an awesome idea! If you want any help with images/whatever, I'll be happy to help. ::D:
Edited by MariovSonic, 2 Feb 2012, 12:53 AM.
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For Legend of Zelda. I bet they will have Skyward Sword Link. That'd be pretty cool. And for Ganon... Remove him and replace him with this guy: Ghirahim.
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I also think that a new character should be that one black dude that samus is friends with on Other M. I forget his name. but he'd be a pretty cool character since they have never had any metroid characters besides Samus.

Also, I wish they would bring back some more Melee stages. I love Melee and I'd like to see a couple stages redone from each smash bros game.

No doubt, they will put more sonic characters in the game, for I thought the popularity of sonic in brawl was really high.
Edited by Kouzetsu, 2 Feb 2012, 01:19 AM.
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MariovSonic
 
I've had the same experiences LtS has in that Sheik seems to be as popular a choice as regular Zelda.


Well, guess I'm the odd man out then. Weird how different my experience has been in comparison to you two's.

MariovSonic
 
I, personally, prefer Toon Link to Young Link for reasons mentioned in my first post. He simply looks -and by extension, feels- a lot more unique than just "Link, only as a kid" (or "Link, only slightly different" if the OoT Link approach is taken).


Oh, of course. I do as well and I think Toon Link was a fantastic addition to Brawl. The main reason I think that Young Link may be a possibility for the next installment is simply because
MariovSonic
 
the 3DS can handle much more than the DS could.


MariovSonic
 
That sounds like an awesome idea! If you want any help with images/whatever, I'll be happy to help.
Thanks! if you would be willing to make just some tiny banners for each category that would be great, but I wasn't personally thinking of making that much of a spectacle out of the awards simply because I'm going to do one after every topic and I think the topics will go by relatively fast without much time to plan out images. But if you still want to do it and just make images on each of the categories (which I will promptly send to you in a PM if you want to ) so that we can use them for each little awards thing, that would be fine as well. Either way, thanks!

Kouzetsu
 
For Legend of Zelda. I bet they will have Skyward Sword Link. That'd be pretty cool. And for Ganon... Remove him and replace him with this guy: Ghirahim.


That definitely seems to be a great possibility. I've heard many people suggesting this as a character for the next Smash Bros. game and I personally don't see any reason not to. He plays a big role in Skyward Sword and is now a staple in Zelda history as the villain of the most recent Zelda game, so I think he would be a perfect fit as well. I myself am not very far into Skyward Sword at all (I'm only on the second dungeon), so I'm not sure of his entire moveset possibilities, but just from the first boss fight with him alone, I can see an array of move possibilities, from his sword to his little ninja star-throwy thingies. The little attack where he charges up and rushes forward with his sword could be similar to Ike's side special move.

I also don't see any reason why Ganondorf and Ghirahim can't both share slots in the Smash Bros. character list. In fact, if they really improved upon Ganondorf's character, it would be awesome to have the choice of the two.

I'll throw that question out for everyone, then. Do you think Ghirahim could be a good potential character in the next Smash Bros. game? And what other lesser Zelda characters would you like to see get brought into the series (especially from Skyward Sword)?

As for your other comments, Kouzetsu, I won't really go into great detail in response to them since they don't pertain to the topic at hand at all, but they will most likely be addressed in later topics down the line. Plus, I unfortunately haven't played Other M so I can't even come up with a valid response to that point at the moment.



By the way, if you guys ever feel like we've come to a point in a topic where there REALLY isn't anything else we can say on the matter, feel free to suggest moving onto another topic and if everyone is in agreement I would definitely be willing to. Alternatively, if there is a topic that comes to a little bit of a standstill as if no one else has anything to say, but you feel like there are still topics within the topic that we can touch on, also feel free to present a question or sub-topic to everyone else. But, try not to interrupt an on-going active discussion with a lot of other questions unless they can fit in well with the subject on hand.

Thank ya, and have a great day. :P
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