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Super Smash Bros. 4 Discussion Thread; An entire thread dedicated to specific discussions in regards to the next installment in the franchise!
Topic Started: 27 Jan 2012, 03:38 AM (6,552 Views)
MariovSonic
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Anyway, I think chronokatz brings up a good point on the subject of different generation pokemon acting as skins.

I suppose there is a way around it by mix-matching types and evolutions. Cyndiquil, Turtwig, Oshawott and, uh... Marshtomp could probably perform Squirle's spinning movements, and work their way around his water attacks with their own variants. You could perhaps downgrade Charizard to Charmeleon to make up for other generation's lack of wings, and change Ivysaur's moveset to better reflect its alternate's. But really, by that point, it's a lot more trouble than it's worth.

There is, however, the option of increasing the number of pokemon available to 5, therefore allowing a space for each generation. Sure, it'd mean two of Brawl's starters would get the axe, but as long as suitable replacements are found, I don't think anyone would be too upset.

If that doesn't happen, and they stick to the three-man team, I personally don't think the Pokemon Trainer's generation 1 starters will be replaced by generation 5's. If Nintendo was really that keen on seriously promoting the current gen in the Smash Bros. games, then, wouldn't we have gotten Grotle, Infernape and Piplup over Ivysaur, Charizard and Squirtle in the first place?

But on the subject of Meowth's inclusion, I have to agree that he's unlikely at this point. I don't consider the anime to be "unpopular" by any means (at least, not when it comes to the younger fans), but I'm sure Nintendo would like to put the spotlight on more recent pokemon, since the legacies have enough representation as is. Besides, while Meowth is undeniably unique, I find it difficult to think of attacks for him that aren't already covered by other characters and items.

Pokeballs, in my opinion, have always been the funnest item in the series, only rivaled by the inclusion of ATs. Their always original and add a ton of unexpected twists to the battle, whether you summon Snorlax or Goldeen. While I honestly can't make any recommendations for additions (or replacements) due to my limited current-Pokemon knowledge, I will say that whichever ones do get added, I hope they continue to bring completely new, surprising attacks and gimmicks into the fight.
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Kouzetsu
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On the topic of the Pokeballs... They are definitely my favorite item. I used to sit there for hours pretending to have Pokemon fights with my sisters on Melee.

As for the item itself. Maybe they could add a master ball or something that allows you to catch the opponent for a set amount of time. But then they are released after a while, just like the move that Donkey Kong has that smashes the opponent into the ground.
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Pokemon Z RPG
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Kouzetsu
 
Your "well rounded" pun was awful...
Being honest here, that was completely unintentional.

chronokatz
 
Another thing we should consider (unless we'll have an Items topic later) is which Pokemon will be included in pokeballs. Between Melee and Brawl, Articuno, Zapdos, and Raikou were removed to make way for gen III and IV pokemon. I can see Suicune or Entei being removed, along with the edition of one of the Regis, one of the lake trio from gen IV, and one of the muskateer pokemon from gen V. That way 1 member of each generation's legendary trio is included. Mew, Jirachi, and Celebi will stay (although the chance of them appearing will decrease to correspond to the increase in the total number of pokemon), and Victini will probably join them. The Spear Pillar will probably be removed as a stage, so Dialga and Palkia will probably become pokemon that can be released from pokeballs. The mascot pokemon of Gen V will also probably be added
Naw, it's okay. We'll definitely have some sort of items and stages topics, but I figured from the beginning that pokeballs should be included in this topic since there isn't as much to cover as there may be in some other ones. Anyway, I can definitely agree with you on most points. I agree that Dialga and Palkia will most likely end up as pokeball Pokemon in this game, but as we mentioned earlier, Victini has just as much of a chance of becoming a playable character in this game as it does becoming a pokeball Pokemon (in my opinion, of course). So, we'll just have to see how that plays out.

chronokatz
 
As for non legendaries, I'm not sure which will be added, but I can make a few guesses as to which will stay. Snorlax and Electrode have been in all three games, so they'll hopefully stick around for SSB4. Staryu and Wobbuffet have been in Melee and Brawl, so I can see them staying. Bellossom will probably be replaced by a gen V pokemon that can use sleep powder, and Togepi will either stay or be replaced by another metronome using pokemon.
I am REALLY curious of what they will decide to do for the non-legendary pokeball Pokemon, in relation to... who should stay and who should go now. I do think the veteran pokeball Pokemon will return, and I'd especially like to see Snorlax and Electrode return out of them because they always make the game a lot of fun. Bellossom will most likely be replaced, but like I said earlier, I am really curious what they are thinking in terms of the older generation Pokemon. Like, do they still see the value in them like they did in the previous Smash Bros. games, or will they want to go all out on generation V for the newest one. I am not sure.

MariovSonic
 
I suppose there is a way around it by mix-matching types and evolutions. Cyndiquil, Turtwig, Oshawott and, uh... Marshtomp could probably perform Squirle's spinning movements, and work their way around his water attacks with their own variants. You could perhaps downgrade Charizard to Charmeleon to make up for other generation's lack of wings, and change Ivysaur's moveset to better reflect its alternate's. But really, by that point, it's a lot more trouble than it's worth
As you said, it is probably more trouble than its worth. Also, I don't think they would ever downgrade Charizard to Charmeleon because you must consider the popularity ratio. Charizard is TONS of people's favorite Pokemon and I have even heard some love for him from people that don't play Pokemon at all. I haven't heard a single thing like that about Charmeleon. Honestly, this was probably why they chose to use the final evolution of the fire-starter: because he is such an iconic Pokemon.

MariovSonic
 
There is, however, the option of increasing the number of pokemon available to 5, therefore allowing a space for each generation. Sure, it'd mean two of Brawl's starters would get the axe, but as long as suitable replacements are found, I don't think anyone would be too upset.
This does sound great in theory, but unfortunately there is a huge flaw. Another reason I think that Pokemon Trainer is such a great concept for a character is how easy and quick it is to switch between the three Pokemon. Just imagine five, though. It would be terrible to have to cycle through 5 different Pokemon just to get to another Pokemon you want to play as, and for this reason alone, I don't see the 5-Pokemon thing happening. Three seems like it would still be the magic number for the next game if they really decide what they want to do and find the perfect balance with their next selections. We shall see.

MariovSonic
 
If that doesn't happen, and they stick to the three-man team, I personally don't think the Pokemon Trainer's generation 1 starters will be replaced by generation 5's. If Nintendo was really that keen on seriously promoting the current gen in the Smash Bros. games, then, wouldn't we have gotten Grotle, Infernape and Piplup over Ivysaur, Charizard and Squirtle in the first place?
This is a very good point. Looking back, I honestly don't see what their logic was with using the first generation's starter evolutions then because really, what does that promote for them? It's not even like Brawl was released around when FireRed or LeafGreen came out, it was released around when Diamond and Pearl came out! I don't honestly know how to respond to this one because, looking at it in a logical way, it would still make sense for them to focus on their fifth generation Pokemon, but looking at this kind of track record, I'm just not sure. Any ideas, anyone?

MariovSonic
 
I don't consider the anime to be "unpopular" by any means (at least, not when it comes to the younger fans)
Honestly? Because of the old voices and most of the characters that made the anime awesome are gone, and isn't this new show only showing at like 6 in the morning some days? What kind of popularity is that? :P

MariovSonic
 
Pokeballs, in my opinion, have always been the funnest item in the series, only rivaled by the inclusion of ATs. Their always original and add a ton of unexpected twists to the battle, whether you summon Snorlax or Goldeen. While I honestly can't make any recommendations for additions (or replacements) due to my limited current-Pokemon knowledge, I will say that whichever ones do get added, I hope they continue to bring completely new, surprising attacks and gimmicks into the fight.
Yeah, of course. Pokeballs have always been excellent items. Assist Trophies had the potential to trump the pokeballs as a superior item, but I think they just lacked in the diversity and cooler characters that pokeballs had.

Kouzetsu
 
As for the item itself. Maybe they could add a master ball or something that allows you to catch the opponent for a set amount of time. But then they are released after a while, just like the move that Donkey Kong has that smashes the opponent into the ground.
I actually think this is a really cool idea! I could definitely see some great potential with an item like that, and I can imagine having a ton of fun times with it.
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chronokatz
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I agree that Dialga and Palkia will most likely end up as pokeball Pokemon in this game, but as we mentioned earlier, Victini has just as much of a chance of becoming a playable character in this game as it does becoming a pokeball Pokemon (in my opinion, of course). So, we'll just have to see how that plays out.

Ah, I missed the post about Victini. I guess it could become a playable character. I don't really know much about it/how popular it is so I can't make an accurate guess.

Pokemon Z RPG
 
I am really curious what they are thinking in terms of the older generation Pokemon. Like, do they still see the value in them like they did in the previous Smash Bros. games, or will they want to go all out on generation V for the newest one. I am not sure.

Gen V was a psuedo-reboot for the pokemon franchise. You start on route 1, only have access to the 150 new pokemon introduced in the new region (until you beat the elite four), etc. So with that in mind, it's possible that, aside from a few veteran pokeball pokemon, all of the pokeball pokemon will be from gen V. Then again, I'm sure TONS of people would hate this. So many people love the original 151 and hate the rest, so only using gen V pokemon would be a risky move on Nintendo's part.

Pokemon Z RPG
 
This is a very good point. Looking back, I honestly don't see what their logic was with using the first generation's starter evolutions then because really, what does that promote for them? It's not even like Brawl was released around when FireRed or LeafGreen came out, it was released around when Diamond and Pearl came out! I don't honestly know how to respond to this one because, looking at it in a logical way, it would still make sense for them to focus on their fifth generation Pokemon, but looking at this kind of track record, I'm just not sure. Any ideas, anyone?

They probably used Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard becausethey were the first starters. The gen I pokemon trainer that made it into brawl and this hypothetical gen IV pokemon trainer that didn't make it in can be compared to Marth and Roy (the two characters to represent Fire Emblem in Melee). Marth was chosen to represent the Fire Emblem series because he was the first protagonist of the series. Roy was added in to drum up hype for FE6 (which was released close to Melee's Japanese release). Because Roy was only added in to promote FE6, he was cut from Brawl while Marth stayed. What I'm getting at is that it made sense to have the gen I pokemon trainer in Brawl because he was the first pokemon trainer, the one we all played as when we first picked up red or blue.
These are just my ideas as to why the gen I trainer was included in Brawl over the gen IV trainer. I don't think what I've just said can be used in an argument for gen I pokemon trainer over gen V pokemon trainer in SSB4.

Kouzetsu
 
As for the item itself. Maybe they could add a master ball or something that allows you to catch the opponent for a set amount of time. But then they are released after a while, just like the move that Donkey Kong has that smashes the opponent into the ground.

The Master Ball item is cool, but what would happen to the ball once someone is caught in it? Would it just fall to the ground? If so then that opens up the option of using it on people when they are jumping above a pit to easily get a kill, which I think is cool. Assuming you catch someone in it and the ball lands on the stage, not off it, what then? Can you pick up the ball and throw it around with them trapped inside it? Could you trap someone in the ball, and then throw the ball at other people to hurt both of them? Or would you be able to attack the ball to hurt the person inside?

Something I just thought of was the inclusion of Ditto. Ditto could be added as Smash Bros' version of Charade or Edge Master (from soulcalibur). So essentially he replaces the random character button. You pick him and he randomly transforms into one of the other characters, and you use that character for the match.
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MariovSonic
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Kouzetsu
25 Feb 2012, 04:40 PM
On the topic of the Pokeballs... They are definitely my favorite item. I used to sit there for hours pretending to have Pokemon fights with my sisters on Melee.

As for the item itself. Maybe they could add a master ball or something that allows you to catch the opponent for a set amount of time. But then they are released after a while, just like the move that Donkey Kong has that smashes the opponent into the ground.
That's a very neat idea, but I'm worried about it overlapping with the the pitfall seed and similar moves. There's also the issue with it being abused to overpower opponents- just think what happens if someone is hit with it when they're over a cliff?

Pokemon Z RPG
25 Feb 2012, 05:57 PM
As you said, it is probably more trouble than its worth. Also, I don't think they would ever downgrade Charizard to Charmeleon because you must consider the popularity ratio. Charizard is TONS of people's favorite Pokemon and I have even heard some love for him from people that don't play Pokemon at all. I haven't heard a single thing like that about Charmeleon. Honestly, this was probably why they chose to use the final evolution of the fire-starter: because he is such an iconic Pokemon.
Oh, I didn't mean that's what they should do; Charizard (and Charmander) happen to be among my favourite pokemon, while Charmeleon is kind of... meh. It was just a suggestion as to remedy other generations' lack of a flying starter pokemon, as well as a way to give each pokemon available a different sized hit box. Just clearing things up. ::P:

Pokemon Z RPG
25 Feb 2012, 05:57 PM
This does sound great in theory, but unfortunately there is a huge flaw. Another reason I think that Pokemon Trainer is such a great concept for a character is how easy and quick it is to switch between the three Pokemon. Just imagine five, though. It would be terrible to have to cycle through 5 different Pokemon just to get to another Pokemon you want to play as, and for this reason alone, I don't see the 5-Pokemon thing happening. Three seems like it would still be the magic number for the next game if they really decide what they want to do and find the perfect balance with their next selections. We shall see.
As I've said previously in the thread, I think the Pokemon Trainer's mode of switching pokemon should be reevaluated a bit. It unfairly punishes the player. The biggest problem is the way the pokemon "cycle" out. Certain pokemon just aren't fit for certain situations, and, unlike Zelda/Sheik, you can't easily transform into the character you desire. Let's say you die in a match; you're automatically transferred to the next pokemon in the lineup. Already at a losing position to your opponent, you then have to wait several seconds to get back to the pokemon you were originally using. Sure, you could say this is balanced out by the fact changing pokemon can be used to avoid attacks and remove negative effects, but when you take into account the changing also leaves you vulnerable and can remove positive item's attributes, it's more of a disability than an advantage. Then there's the whole stamina system forcing you to use only a certain pokemon while the other two recover.

I say map pokemon changing to the Wii U's touchscreen, allowing the player to choose which pokemon they want with a tap of an icon. Additionally, with the representation of all five generations, the two extra fighters available would better serve the stamina system by giving the player more options in a pinch whilst still preventing the abuse of only a few select pokemon.

Pokemon Z RPG
25 Feb 2012, 05:57 PM
This is a very good point. Looking back, I honestly don't see what their logic was with using the first generation's starter evolutions then because really, what does that promote for them? It's not even like Brawl was released around when FireRed or LeafGreen came out, it was released around when Diamond and Pearl came out! I don't honestly know how to respond to this one because, looking at it in a logical way, it would still make sense for them to focus on their fifth generation Pokemon, but looking at this kind of track record, I'm just not sure. Any ideas, anyone?
I think you've sort of answered your own question. XD You yourself said Charizard is a well-loved pokemon... and part of that is the fact he's so well known due to his exposure as the "face" of generation one. The original pokemon are very recognisable among gamers in general, so it sort of made sense to select them.

Pokemon Z RPG
25 Feb 2012, 05:57 PM
Honestly? Because of the old voices and most of the characters that made the anime awesome are gone, and isn't this new show only showing at like 6 in the morning some days? What kind of popularity is that? :P
Yes, honestly. I'm not sure what time it plays, but the Cartoon Network website says new episodes come on at 9:30 EST Saturdays, a very good timeslot for a 'toon.

And, on that note, as implied in my post, subjective quality of the show according to older fans =/= objective popularity among younger fans. Long live the original voice actors! xP

chronokatz
25 Feb 2012, 07:22 PM
Gen V was a psuedo-reboot for the pokemon franchise. You start on route 1, only have access to the 150 new pokemon introduced in the new region (until you beat the elite four), etc. So with that in mind, it's possible that, aside from a few veteran pokeball pokemon, all of the pokeball pokemon will be from gen V. Then again, I'm sure TONS of people would hate this. So many people love the original 151 and hate the rest, so only using gen V pokemon would be a risky move on Nintendo's part.
I don't think Nintendo will limit the cameo pokemon to the ones featured in Black and White for... pretty much the same reasons you've said. There may have been a psuedo-reboot, but that doesn't mean Nintendo wants everyone to forget about the previous generations. I'm sure generation five will get a lot of representation; that's to be expected. But if they aren't getting rid of Pikachu or Jigglypuff, then I see no reason Snorlax, Electrode, and Goldeen will be left behind.

chronokatz
25 Feb 2012, 07:22 PM
Something I just thought of was the inclusion of Ditto. Ditto could be added as Smash Bros' version of Charade or Edge Master (from soulcalibur). So essentially he replaces the random character button. You pick him and he randomly transforms into one of the other characters, and you use that character for the match.
While I think that is some good fanservice, I'm concerned that it'd prevent things from being "franchise-neutral". SSB's tries to show respect to each IP, and I can imagine someone complaining over a character from a specific franchise is being "glorified" as the all-important random function or something like that.
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chronokatz
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MariovSonic
 
I say map pokemon changing to the Wii U's touchscreen, allowing the player to choose which pokemon they want with a tap of an icon. Additionally, with the representation of all five generations, the two extra fighters available would better serve the stamina system by giving the player more options in a pinch whilst still preventing the abuse of only a few select pokemon.

Oooh that's a cool idea. Never even thought to consider what the new control could bring to this discussion. Then again, that kinda limits the controllers you can use to play the game. With brawl, you could use game cube controllers, the wiimote and nunchuck, or just the wiimote. If they wanna continue this in SSB4, they can't start adding controls that require the touch screen. Personally I think the idea is cool, but would rather use a gamecube controller for SSB4. Then again, I'd be willing to switch to the WiiU controller for the sake of progress (aka a better pokemon trainer character).

Another thing to quickly consider (even though the Zelda discussion is closed), could the Sheik/Zelda transformation be mapped to the touch screen also? That way they could each get a new B down move.

MariovSonic
 
I don't think Nintendo will limit the cameo pokemon to the ones featured in Black and White for... pretty much the same reasons you've said. There may have been a psuedo-reboot, but that doesn't mean Nintendo wants everyone to forget about the previous generations. I'm sure generation five will get a lot of representation; that's to be expected. But if they aren't getting rid of Pikachu or Jigglypuff, then I see no reason Snorlax, Electrode, and Goldeen will be left behind.

Yeah I kinda just post my own thought process on an issue as I think about it XD

Also I was thinking about Goldeen (and how it should be replaced with Magikarp), and actually thought of a way to include Magikarp as a pokeball pokemon. You release it from the pokeball and it just kinda flops around in place like Goldeen. But you can interact with it. Hit it around, use items on it, pick it up and throw it at people, go crazy. The catch it, Magikarp has a % value (like the one all players have) that's hidden so the players can't see it. Once it's % reaches a certain amount (an amount that changes each time it's released from a pokeball), Magikarp evolves into Gyarados and attacks the person who pushed its % over the special hidden value. So it's kinda like a hot potato item.
Oh, just to clarify, it will only stick around for a set amount of time. Maybe the same amount of time Munchlax stays in brawl. If it isn't hit at all before the time is up, it will just disappear. If it is, it will attack the person who hit it last. If it's thrown and hits someone, the person it hits is the one it counts as having done the damage, not the one who throws it.
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chronokatz
 
Gen V was a psuedo-reboot for the pokemon franchise. You start on route 1, only have access to the 150 new pokemon introduced in the new region (until you beat the elite four), etc. So with that in mind, it's possible that, aside from a few veteran pokeball pokemon, all of the pokeball pokemon will be from gen V. Then again, I'm sure TONS of people would hate this. So many people love the original 151 and hate the rest, so only using gen V pokemon would be a risky move on Nintendo's part.
This is very true. I don't think any other generation after the first generation has had generation-exclusive Pokemon in their games, so I can see the possibility of limiting their addition to this "fresh start" of sorts.

chronokatz
 
They probably used Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard becausethey were the first starters. The gen I pokemon trainer that made it into brawl and this hypothetical gen IV pokemon trainer that didn't make it in can be compared to Marth and Roy (the two characters to represent Fire Emblem in Melee). Marth was chosen to represent the Fire Emblem series because he was the first protagonist of the series. Roy was added in to drum up hype for FE6 (which was released close to Melee's Japanese release). Because Roy was only added in to promote FE6, he was cut from Brawl while Marth stayed. What I'm getting at is that it made sense to have the gen I pokemon trainer in Brawl because he was the first pokemon trainer, the one we all played as when we first picked up red or blue.
These are just my ideas as to why the gen I trainer was included in Brawl over the gen IV trainer. I don't think what I've just said can be used in an argument for gen I pokemon trainer over gen V pokemon trainer in SSB4.
That's actually a pretty spot-on comparison! Great thinking!

chronokatz
 
The Master Ball item is cool, but what would happen to the ball once someone is caught in it? Would it just fall to the ground? If so then that opens up the option of using it on people when they are jumping above a pit to easily get a kill, which I think is cool. Assuming you catch someone in it and the ball lands on the stage, not off it, what then? Can you pick up the ball and throw it around with them trapped inside it? Could you trap someone in the ball, and then throw the ball at other people to hurt both of them? Or would you be able to attack the ball to hurt the person inside?
Yeah, I think having it drop to the ground as a pitfall-esque feature would be appropriate. That would really open up a whole other element of gameplay and stress the importance of dodging/air-dodging. And the way I took it was if it landed on the ground, perhaps it damages the victim, reminiscent to Gulpin as a pokeball Pokemon in brawl? Yes, it would pretty much defy the logic of what a pokeball (or in this case, a master ball) does, but there are always some logical things that must be sacrificed for the sake of fun (like how Olimar should really be only a couple of inches tall in reality).

chronokatz
 
Something I just thought of was the inclusion of Ditto. Ditto could be added as Smash Bros' version of Charade or Edge Master (from soulcalibur). So essentially he replaces the random character button. You pick him and he randomly transforms into one of the other characters, and you use that character for the match.
I suppose that would be cool. Maybe even have it seperate from random and then when you get in a match and you transform, it randomizes between the other characters that are playing in the match? Just an idea, but the problem I see with it is:
MariovSonic
 
I'm concerned that it'd prevent things from being "franchise-neutral". SSB's tries to show respect to each IP, and I can imagine someone complaining over a character from a specific franchise is being "glorified" as the all-important random function or something like that.


MariovSonic
 
That's a very neat idea, but I'm worried about it overlapping with the the pitfall seed and similar moves. There's also the issue with it being abused to overpower opponents- just think what happens if someone is hit with it when they're over a cliff?
That's also assuming the pitfall seed and such are still included with the item lineup in the next game. I personally don't see it as a very spectacular item, and don't think it would give or take away from the game if it was excluded. As for what would happen if someone is over a cliff- that's the fun of it all! I can just imagine the craziness that would ensue if these scenarios took place. Plus, isn't it the same case with the pitfall seed? Or am I mistaken? There is also the possibility of increasing the rarity for particular items, that way the master ball becomes a rare item, just like it is in the games. I think that would be interesting if it does prove to be too overpowered.

MariovSonic
 
Yes, honestly. I'm not sure what time it plays, but the Cartoon Network website says new episodes come on at 9:30 EST Saturdays, a very good timeslot for a 'toon.

And, on that note, as implied in my post, subjective quality of the show according to older fans =/= objective popularity among younger fans. Long live the original voice actors! xP
Well, I still think it is a joke of a show at this point, but I suppose we should end this debate since it is pretty off-topic.

MariovSonic
 
I say map pokemon changing to the Wii U's touchscreen, allowing the player to choose which pokemon they want with a tap of an icon. Additionally, with the representation of all five generations, the two extra fighters available would better serve the stamina system by giving the player more options in a pinch whilst still preventing the abuse of only a few select pokemon.
Don't forget to consider the 3DS's control mapping, though. I suppose it could be on the touch screen, but I have a feeling the gameplay may be more touch screen-focused on the 3DS anyway. But let's try and steer away from the control talk because: shhhhh it will probably be its own topic!

chronokatz
 
Oooh that's a cool idea. Never even thought to consider what the new control could bring to this discussion. Then again, that kinda limits the controllers you can use to play the game. With brawl, you could use game cube controllers, the wiimote and nunchuck, or just the wiimote. If they wanna continue this in SSB4, they can't start adding controls that require the touch screen. Personally I think the idea is cool, but would rather use a gamecube controller for SSB4. Then again, I'd be willing to switch to the WiiU controller for the sake of progress (aka a better pokemon trainer character).
I hate to break it to you now, but Nintendo has already confirmed the lack of backwards-compatibility on the WiiU (for the GameCube), therefore excluding the GameCube controller even as an option. This is sad for me as well, since I pretty much have only used the GameCube controller ever since Melee, so it will take some adjusting for me to the Classic Controller or WiiU controller.

chronokatz
 
Another thing to quickly consider (even though the Zelda discussion is closed), could the Sheik/Zelda transformation be mapped to the touch screen also? That way they could each get a new B down move.
That's hard to consider because as we discussed in the Zelda topic, there is a big possibility Sheik may even be excluded because of the probable usage of Skyward Sword Zelda, but if so I still think it isn't necessary for them to have a down B move because there are only two forms to cycle through, as opposed to the Pokemon Trainer.

chronokatz
 
Also I was thinking about Goldeen (and how it should be replaced with Magikarp), and actually thought of a way to include Magikarp as a pokeball pokemon. You release it from the pokeball and it just kinda flops around in place like Goldeen. But you can interact with it. Hit it around, use items on it, pick it up and throw it at people, go crazy. The catch it, Magikarp has a % value (like the one all players have) that's hidden so the players can't see it. Once it's % reaches a certain amount (an amount that changes each time it's released from a pokeball), Magikarp evolves into Gyarados and attacks the person who pushed its % over the special hidden value. So it's kinda like a hot potato item.
Oh, just to clarify, it will only stick around for a set amount of time. Maybe the same amount of time Munchlax stays in brawl. If it isn't hit at all before the time is up, it will just disappear. If it is, it will attack the person who hit it last. If it's thrown and hits someone, the person it hits is the one it counts as having done the damage, not the one who throws it.
That's an interesting idea, but I'm wondering if it may be way more trouble than it's worth.
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chronokatz
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Pokemon Z RPG
 
I hate to break it to you now, but Nintendo has already confirmed the lack of backwards-compatibility on the WiiU (for the GameCube), therefore excluding the GameCube controller even as an option. This is sad for me as well, since I pretty much have only used the GameCube controller ever since Melee, so it will take some adjusting for me to the Classic Controller or WiiU controller.

Ah. Never mind then. You brought up a good point about the DS-WiiU compatibility though. But back to the topic at hand.

Pokemon Z RPG
 
That's an interesting idea, but I'm wondering if it may be way more trouble than it's worth.

It probably is haha, but it always bugged me that even though Magikarp was the pokemon that was widely stated to be useless because all it could do was splash, Goldeen got the position in SSB. I figured having Magikarp work this way would focus on how its "useless" in its first form but awesome in its second form.

Also, a friend of mine showed me this, which draws us back to the Gen V legendaries:
http://ds.ign.com/articles/121/1219443p1.html

We figured that Zekrom and Reshiram would definitely be included in SSB4 in some way (maybe in a stage that functions as SSB4's version of the Spear Pillar?), but this makes me question that theory. Maybe these new forms of Reshiram and Zekrom will make it in instead?
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MariovSonic
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Well I've got 99 problems and this is 389 of them
chronokatz
26 Feb 2012, 12:55 AM
Also I was thinking about Goldeen (and how it should be replaced with Magikarp), and actually thought of a way to include Magikarp as a pokeball pokemon. You release it from the pokeball and it just kinda flops around in place like Goldeen. But you can interact with it. Hit it around, use items on it, pick it up and throw it at people, go crazy. The catch it, Magikarp has a % value (like the one all players have) that's hidden so the players can't see it. Once it's % reaches a certain amount (an amount that changes each time it's released from a pokeball), Magikarp evolves into Gyarados and attacks the person who pushed its % over the special hidden value. So it's kinda like a hot potato item.
Oh, just to clarify, it will only stick around for a set amount of time. Maybe the same amount of time Munchlax stays in brawl. If it isn't hit at all before the time is up, it will just disappear. If it is, it will attack the person who hit it last. If it's thrown and hits someone, the person it hits is the one it counts as having done the damage, not the one who throws it.
I seriously like this idea! But with such a gamble, it'd have to make its use worth the risk, so throwing it at others would have to yield a decent damage amount... and perhaps even heal a few percentage points of damage for the user?

Pokemon Z RPG
26 Feb 2012, 12:55 AM
That's also assuming the pitfall seed and such are still included with the item lineup in the next game. I personally don't see it as a very spectacular item, and don't think it would give or take away from the game if it was excluded. As for what would happen if someone is over a cliff- that's the fun of it all! I can just imagine the craziness that would ensue if these scenarios took place. Plus, isn't it the same case with the pitfall seed? Or am I mistaken? There is also the possibility of increasing the rarity for particular items, that way the master ball becomes a rare item, just like it is in the games. I think that would be interesting if it does prove to be too overpowered.
The pitfall seed doesn't automatically kill you if you're hit in the air; you're simply sent downward. I suppose I should clarify that I imagine the masterball working as a normal pokeball in its own series would, where it only works if it hits the... "victim". I'm apprehensive that the masterball would act as an end-all insta-death item, which is a seriously bad thing. Sure, there are a lot of powerful weapons, but none of them always translate to immediate death. But I guess if the player is given the ability to "break out" of the object in question ala Yoshi's eggs, then it could be a very workable, versatile weapon.

Pokemon Z RPG
26 Feb 2012, 12:55 AM
Well, I still think it is a joke of a show at this point, but I suppose we should end this debate since it is pretty off-topic.
I'm not arguing whether or not the show is good or not; I'm arguing that it is still widely watched by the target demographic. Regardless of quality, it's Nielsen ratings are still decent...ButyeahofftopicI'llstopnow
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Kouzetsu
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if she's old enough to count she's old enough to mount
The target demographic = Mostly 4-12 year olds. Pokemon "the show" died after the third generation.

Anyway, I don't really see the Pitfall seed as a very important item. I would much rather have my master ball idea take its place.

And about the master ball. Let me clear things up.

When you catch the foe in it, the ball will fall to the platform right below it, if no platform it will fall straight to the ground---but here's the catch. They can rapidly press A to make the ball shake in a similar way to the Pokemon catch animation in the game. So if they are falling off a platform when caught then they can escape and still make it back up before they die... Maybe. Haha. But yeah. You would be able to do damage while you are captured.

As for Victini, I see a lot of potential in him being in SSB4. But there has to be more than just Victini. I'm betting on at least 3 or more Generation V Pokemon in the game, because in my opinion this generation is definately the best gameplay wise and Pokemon is gaining a bigger audience for the games more than they have ever done before. I'd like to see some Pokemon such as the starters and maybe a couple of legendaries like Genesect or something.
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