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Ukraine; Ukraine & Russia - Putin backers & protesters
Topic Started: 18 Dec 2013, 09:59 PM (3,475 Views)
SuffolkRoyal
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America is flexing its muscles by sending fighter planes to Lithuania as a show of support for Ukraine.

Undoubtedly we'll be joining them once Obama tells Cameron what to do. Why the hell can't we stay out of something which is none of our business?
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Hayes
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So little Willie Hague is been sent in to take on the Ruskies :D Before he starts shouting about Russia not interfering with another country he needs to be reminded,Afghanistan,Egypt,Syria,Iraq,Libya ^o)

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Gwent Royal
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Really not sure at all on this.

The overthrow of a legitimate government, that was democratically voted in, is supported by the west.
Those Ukrainians who (presumably voted) for that government, now unsurprisingly want to leave Ukraine and join Russia, the country their government was close allies to. The referendum on that, with those people having their say is then condemned by the west as illegitimate.

I am not saying I know the answers, but I am saying I can see both points of view on this. The west cannot just say we believe in democracy, unless of course we don't like the government you vote for, surely?

To be honest with the potential for war, and annexing of parts of the Ukraine, it makes you wonder if this ousting of the government was counter-productive to the pro west Ukrainians. May have been better to try to oust that party through the ballot box.

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Clyde1998
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Russia recognize Crimea as an independent country.
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Gwent Royal
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Clyde1998
17 Mar 2014, 08:38 PM
Russia recognize Crimea as an independent country.
For the moment.

They have already applied to become a part of Russia. ^o)
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cribsie
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Some of the sanctions announced involve freezing individuals' assets. As someone pointed out, if they haven't got Western bank accounts they're not going to be bothered...
My Reading FC History Site The Biscuitmen
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bmb
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Invading AFCB Fan & sole member of the Viktor Kassai fanclub!
If that's what the people there want then let them have what they want. I'm sure not all wanted independence 20 odd years ago & were comfortable with what they had.
AFCB fan in peace!
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Gwent Royal
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Agree to an extent bmb, but the other side to that coin is not all do want that.

Eg The Muslim population are now in fear.

If they could find a way to let families swap houses and jobs into the areas that they want to be (either Russian / Ukrainian) that would be good, but I guess that's utopia!

Same as the Irish conflict was, isn't it. Most Northern Irish want to be British, but conversely others want to be Irish as was promised. No easy solution at all to this.

Personally cannot see why anyone would want Putin as their leader. Like turkeys voting for Christmas isn't it? Still their choice I guess.
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Clyde1998
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Isn't Crimea declaring independence the same as Kosovo doing it?

The US only care about their own interests - they are trying to be the grantors to the world.
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bmb
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Invading AFCB Fan & sole member of the Viktor Kassai fanclub!
Gwent Royal
18 Mar 2014, 07:18 PM
Agree to an extent bmb, but the other side to that coin is not all do want that.

Eg The Muslim population are now in fear.

If they could find a way to let families swap houses and jobs into the areas that they want to be (either Russian / Ukrainian) that would be good, but I guess that's utopia!

Same as the Irish conflict was, isn't it. Most Northern Irish want to be British, but conversely others want to be Irish as was promised. No easy solution at all to this.

Personally cannot see why anyone would want Putin as their leader. Like turkeys voting for Christmas isn't it? Still their choice I guess.
Agree with that. In an ideal world they could have a period of grace say for 6-12 months where all those in Ukraine who want to be part of Russia can freely move to Crimea and those in Crimea who want to be a part of Ukraine move the other way with facilities set up for house swaps to occur, no threats, no violence, no recriminations. Shame that is far too sensible an idea for any politician to have a part of!!

Very similar to the Irish conflict indeed where you really were prohibited from moving Republic to North or vice versa. My maternal grandparents were treated as real pariahs for having the audacity to not only mix North & Republic but to also cross the sectarian line of loyalist and catholic, that was largely unforgivable. There were very few safe havens back then where the 2 religions could mix socially, let alone live together & marry! Even now despite the troubles being officially over places like Belfast exist with several "peace walls" in place, separating the 2 main communities, very few schools take children of both religions, outer lying villages are one or the other but rarely a mix etc. Hopefully one day the walls can come down and the people live in true peace, whatever their religion.

I'd hate to see Ukraine/Crimea ending up that way.
AFCB fan in peace!
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