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Ukraine; Ukraine & Russia - Putin backers & protesters
Topic Started: 18 Dec 2013, 09:59 PM (3,473 Views)
bmb
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Invading AFCB Fan & sole member of the Viktor Kassai fanclub!
Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 03:58 PM
What are we going to do than?The Tories have ripped our forces to shreads and the Americans wont have the stomach for a war with Russia.That leaves the rest of Europe,the ones that lays down their arms at the sound of a starter pistol.Let them have Ukraine,full of Neo Nazis anyway ,we already been backing the wrong side in two wars already.Russia I believe would not go any further,besides we need their gas,what if they pulled the plug?If we were really serious in stopping a real dictator,then go after Mugarbe,he really is murdering his people.
They won't go after Mugabe after all they helped put him in power in the first place! I know a fair bit about those days in Rhodesia, despite being a very small child at the time, my brother was the youngest soldier to die there, aged 17.

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Hayes
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bmb
1 Apr 2014, 04:52 PM
Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 03:58 PM
What are we going to do than?The Tories have ripped our forces to shreads and the Americans wont have the stomach for a war with Russia.That leaves the rest of Europe,the ones that lays down their arms at the sound of a starter pistol.Let them have Ukraine,full of Neo Nazis anyway ,we already been backing the wrong side in two wars already.Russia I believe would not go any further,besides we need their gas,what if they pulled the plug?If we were really serious in stopping a real dictator,then go after Mugarbe,he really is murdering his people.
They won't go after Mugabe after all they helped put him in power in the first place! I know a fair bit about those days in Rhodesia, despite being a very small child at the time, my brother was the youngest soldier to die there, aged 17.

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What year was that Gayle,is he in the picture?

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Hayes
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Royal_Stoney
1 Apr 2014, 12:22 PM
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bmb
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Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 05:02 PM
bmb
1 Apr 2014, 04:52 PM
Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 03:58 PM
What are we going to do than?The Tories have ripped our forces to shreads and the Americans wont have the stomach for a war with Russia.That leaves the rest of Europe,the ones that lays down their arms at the sound of a starter pistol.Let them have Ukraine,full of Neo Nazis anyway ,we already been backing the wrong side in two wars already.Russia I believe would not go any further,besides we need their gas,what if they pulled the plug?If we were really serious in stopping a real dictator,then go after Mugarbe,he really is murdering his people.
They won't go after Mugabe after all they helped put him in power in the first place! I know a fair bit about those days in Rhodesia, despite being a very small child at the time, my brother was the youngest soldier to die there, aged 17.

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What year was that Gayle,is he in the picture?
He's the one right at the front, he was 16 there. It was taken in December 1975, he was on his way home for my birthday. He turned 17 in January 1976 and was KIA 11th October 1976 & as he was my legal guardian I was sent back to the UK to live.
Edited by bmb, 1 Apr 2014, 05:19 PM.
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Hayes
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bmb
1 Apr 2014, 05:18 PM
Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 05:02 PM
bmb
1 Apr 2014, 04:52 PM
Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 03:58 PM
What are we going to do than?The Tories have ripped our forces to shreads and the Americans wont have the stomach for a war with Russia.That leaves the rest of Europe,the ones that lays down their arms at the sound of a starter pistol.Let them have Ukraine,full of Neo Nazis anyway ,we already been backing the wrong side in two wars already.Russia I believe would not go any further,besides we need their gas,what if they pulled the plug?If we were really serious in stopping a real dictator,then go after Mugarbe,he really is murdering his people.
They won't go after Mugabe after all they helped put him in power in the first place! I know a fair bit about those days in Rhodesia, despite being a very small child at the time, my brother was the youngest soldier to die there, aged 17.

Posted Image
What year was that Gayle,is he in the picture?
He's the one right at the front, he was 16 there. It was taken in December 1975, he was on his way home for my birthday. He turned 17 in January 1976 and was KIA 11th October 1976 & as he was my legal guardian I was sent back to the UK to live.
Ian Smith of Robert Mugabe?I remember Harold Wilson talking on some boat about Rhodesia's future then Smith declared independence till about 1980 I think then Mugabe took control.Who do you think was the better?Both as bad as one another?

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bmb
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Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 05:30 PM
Ian Smith of Robert Mugabe?I remember Harold Wilson talking on some boat about Rhodesia's future then Smith declared independence till about 1980 I think then Mugabe took control.Who do you think was the better?Both as bad as one another?
Ian Smith was in charge then. He was a good man although I learned in latter years he was not portrayed as such over here. Mugabe was the opposition then and his party/followers were responsible for 99% of the atrocities, what they did to their own back then is basically what he is still doing today.
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Hayes
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bmb
1 Apr 2014, 05:43 PM
Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 05:30 PM
Ian Smith of Robert Mugabe?I remember Harold Wilson talking on some boat about Rhodesia's future then Smith declared independence till about 1980 I think then Mugabe took control.Who do you think was the better?Both as bad as one another?
Ian Smith was in charge then. He was a good man although I learned in latter years he was not portrayed as such over here. Mugabe was the opposition then and his party/followers were responsible for 99% of the atrocities, what they did to their own back then is basically what he is still doing today.
Better the devil you know,we could have took lessons from that situation over the last few years. ^o)

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Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 05:55 PM
bmb
1 Apr 2014, 05:43 PM
Hayes
1 Apr 2014, 05:30 PM
Ian Smith of Robert Mugabe?I remember Harold Wilson talking on some boat about Rhodesia's future then Smith declared independence till about 1980 I think then Mugabe took control.Who do you think was the better?Both as bad as one another?
Ian Smith was in charge then. He was a good man although I learned in latter years he was not portrayed as such over here. Mugabe was the opposition then and his party/followers were responsible for 99% of the atrocities, what they did to their own back then is basically what he is still doing today.
Better the devil you know,we could have took lessons from that situation over the last few years. ^o)
Hindsight is a wonderful thing! The reason lessons weren't learned is no-one wanted to admit that they had got it so horribly wrong although the past few years they have finally started to recognise some of the horrors that they tried to sweep under the carpet at the time, a passenger plane being shot down, kids raped and murdered at a missionary being 2 things they have now recognised and said sorry for. From that side Ian Smith was begging for help & showing them what was happening but no-one helped. The troopie memorial is now in the UK at Hatfield House, I hope to visit it one day.
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daib0
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Inter-Forum Gamemaster!
BBC News



Ukraine crisis: Pro-Russian attack in Ukraine's Horlivka


Pro-Russian activists have attacked another official building in east Ukraine, ignoring a deadline to leave or face eviction by Ukrainian forces.

A crowd stormed a police station in the town of Horlivka, near Donetsk, taking control of the building.

Ukraine's interim president hit out at "aggression" from Russia, but signalled support for a national referendum.

Olexander Turchynov said Kiev was "not against" a vote on the future of the country, a key demand from protesters. Mr Turchynov also said Ukraine was preparing an "anti-terrorist operation" against gunmen occupying government buildings in Sloviansk and a number of other towns and cities.

Correspondents says people in eastern Ukraine are anxiously waiting to see if Mr Turchynov carries through on his threat to use the army against the pro-Russian groups.



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I believe Ukraine will lose all darker yellow area, and even up to and including Kharkiv





In other developments:

Moscow denied allegations that Russian agents had been fomenting unrest in east Ukraine
Vitaly Tsyhanok, the head of Ukraine's anti-terror operations, was sacked after criticism of Kiev's response to the crisis in the east
A Ukrainian official said the government had not declared a state of emergency over the crisis in the east because it would require suspending the run-up to presidential elections on 25 May
Britain called on the European Union to agree "further sanctions" against Russia in response to the escalating crisis
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Owlish52
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Putin will press for all he can get, and the Western response has been rather noisy but ineffective. I can see the new Russian Empire reaching for all of southern Ukraine in order to link up with the Trans-Dnistr breakaway region which has also sought 'reunion' with Russia rather than to remain a part of Moldavia. I simply can not see the West doing more than hand-wringing, more vocal protests and a few additional rather modest bans and freezes.

I do see some parallels with the Nazi grab for Austria in 1938 - Hitler was actually less willing to grab for Austria, and Goering made one of his few effective 'contributions' to Germany by forcing the issue (happens as I wrote a paper on this back in Ancient Times ;) :D ). When Hitler saw the Western response was weak, he moved forward. The weak response made Hitler believe the West was all fuss and bluster, encouraging him to further territorial 'adventures'. Had the West been more forceful, the German military had orders to pull back. Not trying to say Putin and Hitler are equal, just that the circumstances are somewhat similar at this point. Unfortunately, like in 1938, I doubt the West has the stomach (or the resources, TBH) to act more forcefully.
Edited by Owlish52, 14 Apr 2014, 12:13 PM.
"It could have been worse with Hillary..." - Owlish52
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