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Lost in Translation; Dialog in Foreign Languages and Cultural Differences
Topic Started: Feb 4 2014, 05:57 PM (5,221 Views)
mahtra
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As the discussion in the Luke/Gail thread was going off topic I decided to continue it here...

Beatriz
Feb 4 2014, 03:21 PM
CHH
Feb 4 2014, 12:34 PM
The reason I don't watch RB or most films and tv shows in my 1st language is because the translation almost always butchers something in every episode. So I'd like to think that I'm mostly fluent in English they are some english expressions that do come up from time to time that don't make much sense to me that I do have to research.
Plus the voice actors who I get are mostly horrible and a lot of meaning gets lost by just using that voice. I did watch the 1 season in english and my 1st language: horrible, really really horrible.
Another thing they use the same voice actors for a lot of different original actors/voices so it's kinda annoying to have Sam sound like a cartoon character my nephew likes to watch or I just associalte horrible/stupid movies with that one voice.

[Edit: But I do understand that not everyone is able to just watch the original version. It may not be available in all countries and it's not really fun to watch something in a language that you can't understand (very well) or are not feeling confident in. I'm like that with Spanish or French, I'm able to say the most basic things because I learned them in school, but that doesn't mean I'm able to follow a telenovela in the same language, becasuse I don't need to use them.]
if my english was as to you maybe would try but no available (¿) to english also, i am impress. to person spanish language 4 and english 5 and language begin are no translate available (¿) so some dificul is. channal is for people who are no spanish 1 to help learn.

even for people who are more understand like to friend, still dificul when to speak and listen and no read. read is more easy. but i am undertstand to voice. person same is news, childs, and religios programme and seem ~. i can no critic person who need job but wish maybe could diferent.


I completely agree with you CHH and handle TV shows pretty much the same way. And I had difficulties watching RB in my 1st language, too. The voices and the fake background noises are weirding me out.To hear a famous radio actor (forever linked in my mind as a juvenile private investigator) as a cab driver doesn't really work for me.

And the word plays can be pretty bad: A "The Who"-pun simply doesn't work, if you are not speaking English...
On the other hand a translation can not only insinuate wrongly, but can also clear up a meaning. I felt like the translation for Andy being "that girl" was a little bit more precise and IMO used distinctly feminist vocabulary thus giving Claire's character another nuance.

Maybe this can be a thread where we foreign viewers can all share things, that stood out in the translation or that we believe to be cultural differences.

And Beatriz, I find it admirable that you are making such an effort to participate in the discussions, even if you are insecure towards your language skills. Kudos to you! And please don't dispair, it might be time consuming right now but you learn so much from reading and using another language. Maybe you don't believe me right now, but you are absorbing so much vocabulary unconciously and after a while the cadence of the sentense and the grammar will come to you more easily, too. Trust me, English used to be my worst subject at school :D

And if you are really unsure about how to say something, maybe you can post it in the Non-English discussion section. I am sure there are quite a few people here, who speak both English and Spanish and will help the rest of us to understand your point of view.
Edited by mahtra, Feb 7 2014, 09:39 AM.
"Tolerance is the suspicion that the other person just might be right." Kurt Tucholsky
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LAwoman
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Great idea both to move this particular conversation and to suggest that viewers bring up other things that struck them with translations. I think a lot of people would find it interesting, even those of us whose first language is English and who watch the original English version of the show.
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Overthinker


I must say that the Italian dubbing is very good and I love to watch shows in my own language.
However Ben has an incredible good voice (to be honest he has an incredible good anything) so it was my lost not to hear it.

The problem is that in some cases the translation decreases the effectiveness of certain statements. For example, for months I thought that the sentence 'she has got a lion's heart' had been made by Ben Bass in an interview, only later I discovered that Sam said it in 1x06 (in Italian becomes 'she is really brave').
Another thing that get lost in translation are the jokes (we don't have the ambulance one) and the double meanings (Andy's answer to Sam when he ask her what she wants to eat in 1x10)
There are also other things but I can't remember right now.
From the third season I started watching the show in English (with subtitles of course) so I don't know how they have translated concepts as 'that girl' or 'girl code' that have no meaning in Italian.

However, I want to say that I really appreciate the effort that native English speakers (and not) do to understand me, at times when I re-read the my posts and I find mistakes I :fear: :facepalm: :hide:
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vixenali
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This is an interesting thread! I'm glad you started it mahtra :D I have heard the Italian-dubbed version of RB is pretty good. I'm curious as to some of the differences people notice since many people do watch RB in English and in their own language.

In HS, I took German and we watched Karate Kid 2 and Alf in German and some of the phrases used were silly when compared to the English because they don't translate.
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AnaFL


I prefer to watch RB (and other shows too) in English cause I notice that many details are lost in translation. Sometimes 50%. of the sentence is completely changed. Awful.
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funlovingirl


I live in Sweden and here are all the tv programs in the original language (English, french, german etc.) with Swedish subtitles. No dubbing. Most people I know can Watch american/English Movies/tv shows without Swedish subtitles. So do I. But I prefer watching Rookie Blue on DVD with English subtitles. I don't want to miss anything important. :D
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LAwoman
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Yes, no dubbing of any kind is done in the U.S. either. But foreign language TV shows basically just never air on networks or cable channels here at all. The only ones that make it are British or Canadian shows that at most have accents to deal with.

Rights to the good non-English shows are acquired & then remade into American versions, which rarely end up being as good as the originals. Foreign language films are always shown with subtitles rather than dubbing.
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mahtra
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I am jealous of those countries which only use subtitles. I worked at a school in such a country and the English level the kids spoke was astonishing. All because they were too young to follow subtitles.
But in Germany we get at least fully subbed versions with different speakers, not just one actor reading everything.
Edited by mahtra, Feb 8 2014, 04:33 PM.
"Tolerance is the suspicion that the other person just might be right." Kurt Tucholsky
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AnaFL


funlovingirl
Feb 5 2014, 08:38 PM
I live in Sweden and here are all the tv programs in the original language (English, french, german etc.) with Swedish subtitles. No dubbing. Most people I know can Watch american/English Movies/tv shows without Swedish subtitles. So do I. But I prefer watching Rookie Blue on DVD with English subtitles. I don't want to miss anything important. :D
Same here in Brazil. We have almost all the tv shows with Portuguese subtitles. I hate dubbing, the voices never fit.
Ooh, I just remembered: Rookie Blue here has 2 different versions. One with dubbing (one different speaker for each character) and one with subtitles and the viewer can chose which one he prefer to watch. Very simple. :D
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mahtra
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AnaFL
Feb 5 2014, 09:42 PM
Ooh, I just remembered: Rookie Blue here has 2 different versions. One with dubbing (one different speaker for each character) and one with subtitles and the viewer can chose which one he prefer to watch. Very simple. :D
How does that work? Are they airing parallel on different channels or do they air in different timeslots/on different days?
"Tolerance is the suspicion that the other person just might be right." Kurt Tucholsky
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xxxdemi


I watch rookie blue with english subtitles because there in no subtitles in my language after 2x04!! I guess they stopped because RB is not really "popular" here. RB is the only show i watch without subs in my language. But it is better because i didn't understood the jokes in 1x07 and others scenes before i watched it with english subs.
Edited by xxxdemi, Feb 5 2014, 10:00 PM.
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AnaFL


mahtra
Feb 5 2014, 09:53 PM
AnaFL
Feb 5 2014, 09:42 PM
Ooh, I just remembered: Rookie Blue here has 2 different versions. One with dubbing (one different speaker for each character) and one with subtitles and the viewer can chose which one he prefer to watch. Very simple. :D
How does that work? Are they airing parallel on different channels or do they air in different timeslots/on different days?
Well, I don't know exactly how this thing works ... :giggle: They air the ep on Universal cable tv channel. The only thing I have to do is to press the cable control and chose between the 2 options: dubbing or subtitles.
The 2 versions (dubbing or subtitles) air in the same channel, same timeslot, same day and I can chose the subtitles version and then go back to dubbing.

Geez, I hope this makes sense ... :D
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mahtra
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Ah, ok. Thanks for explaining. I haven't had a TV in years and I am not familiar with cable anyway;)
"Tolerance is the suspicion that the other person just might be right." Kurt Tucholsky
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Overthinker


I think subtitles are banned in Italy. :sarc:

Well, in the last years Sky (pay TV) gives the possibility to watch the show in its original language, with or without subtitles, during the show you press the info button and you can choose the language and the subtitles that you want.

But no channel would air a show with the only option to see it with subtitle. It's simply not part of our culture.
The dubbing school is considered part of our heritage. In the past, to make the adaptation of the texts they had months and they could see the movie (show), now things are changing, they receive only the subtitles to translate with a tight deadlines, for market reasons, this, unfortunately, has worsened the performance.
For the actors, on the other hand, to give the voice for the dubbing was almost a forced step to rise through the ranks.

My friend dreamt for years to win the internship for the translator team ( :shifty: ) , but now when she talks about that experience her disappointment is crystal clear.

I get that English is important and it's beautiful to watch a show in the own language, but I think that it's important for us to preserve our tradition too.
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mahtra
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Here are some other things I noticed in the German version (of course these points are just a selection):

S1



  • Sam complains to Jerry that he was dressed like a homeless person ('Penner'), instead of a punk. There is no reason to change the original statement.

  • Apparently they switched 1x04 and 1x05 and broadcasted Broad Daylight first.

  • Chris isn't sporting a 'mamel toe', but has a rolling pin ('Nudelrolle') tucked in his white pants.

  • The pawn shop owner Det. Erico and Chris interview is dubbed by the radio actor of Skinny Norris in "Die Drei Fragezeichen".

  • Andy asks for Sam's van ('Lieferwagen') to go look for Benny.

  • Sam and Andy still use the polite form of address ('Sie', comparable to the French 'vous') when Andy shows up at his doorstep in Hot & Bothered. But in 1x08 they are more informal ('du', the equivalent of the French 'tu').

  • The apologetic cab driver appears to be dubbed by Jens Wawrczeck (Peter Shaw in "Die Drei Fragezeichen").

  • They didn't translate the music jokes in the car properly.

    "Na mach schon! Welche Musik hörst du gerne?"
    "Rush. Ich bin ein großer Rush-Fan."
    "Who?"
    "The Who mag ich auch. Classic Rock, weißt du. Na los, such mal, vielleicht findest du was von Free."
    "Free?"

  • In the diner Sam asks if the pig was sick because his ham sandwich tastes like Aspirin.

    "Probleme, Officer?"
    "Ja, mit meinem Schinken-Sandwich."
    "Im Ernst?"
    "War das Schwein krank? Es schmeckt nach Aspirin."


  • He also wonders if the diner's fridge is neutered. The waitress asks how. He tells her: Open the door. Take the eggs out. Close the door. ('Eggs' is a colloquial expression for testicals.)

    "[...] Und meine Partnerin wüsste gerne, ob Ihr Kühlschrank kastriert ist."
    "Wie soll das gehen?"
    "Tür auf. Eier raus. ... Tür zu."


  • Afterwards that comment is picked up again: The beaver has been castrated. ("Nein McNally, die gehören irgend'nem Biber. Der ist hier kastriert worden.")

  • In 1x13 Angel sounds a lot more hesitant concerning Gabe and Edi. ("Man spürt es einfach... oder auch nicht!")
Edited by mahtra, Feb 6 2014, 10:09 AM.
"Tolerance is the suspicion that the other person just might be right." Kurt Tucholsky
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mahtra
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Overthinker
Feb 6 2014, 07:28 AM
I think subtitles are banned in Italy. :sarc:

Well, in the last years Sky (pay TV) gives the possibility to watch the show in its original language, with or without subtitles, during the show you press the info button and you can choose the language and the subtitles that you want.

But no channel would air a show with the only option to see it with subtitle. It's simply not part of our culture.
The dubbing school is considered part of our heritage. In the past, to make the adaptation of the texts they had months and they could see the movie (show), now things are changing, they receive only the subtitles to translate with a tight deadlines, for market reasons, this, unfortunately, has worsened the performance.
For the actors, on the other hand, to give the voice for the dubbing was almost a forced step to rise through the ranks.

My friend dreamt for years to win the internship for the translator team ( :shifty: ) , but now when she talks about that experience her disappointment is crystal clear.

I get that English is important and it's beautiful to watch a show in the own language, but I think that it's important for us to preserve our tradition too.

I can understand totally where you are coming from. A family member of mine is trying to get a hold in the translation business and it is a lot of hard work and very little pay. The translators for TV have it even harder, not only don't they have much time to deliver their work, but they have to match the syllables and lip movements, too. Unfortunately not all of them studied English Lit. and so they don't always get all the innuendos. For example Boo Radley became Boo Adley in the German version because someone forgot about Harper Lee :uhh:


And I am fine with dubbing for people who are not feeling comfortable enough to watch the original.
It's just that I personally can't stand it. Too many times I have heard grave grammatical and contextual mistakes. And I feel like there are so many innuendos you don't get if you don't have the original version. "When I pulled my hamstring I went to a mysogynist." is one of my favorite example of how dubbing can fail. In German it simply didn't work because the words are too different.

And as hard as it is to admit, I can understand the pressure from the international distributers. I hated it, when you had to wait ages until a season or film aired over here. I know quite a few people who went to Dutch movie theaters because they didn't want to wait until they had finally finished dubbing the film.

If almost all Italian actors do voice over, do you have a consistency too? For example the German voices for the more notable actors are always the same. Julia Robberts or Bruce Willis' German voices are so iconic that the actors are getting booked for TV ads.
Edited by mahtra, Feb 6 2014, 09:26 AM.
"Tolerance is the suspicion that the other person just might be right." Kurt Tucholsky
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Overthinker


mahtra
Feb 6 2014, 08:13 AM

If almost all Italian actors do voice over, do you have a consistency too? For example the German voices for the more notable actors are always the same. Julia Robberts or Bruce Willis' German voices are so iconic that the actors are getting booked for TV ads.

It's almost a rule, with some exceptions.
They try to give always the same voice to one actor (big or not), when it's possible. Sometimes it's funny when you hear the Italian voice of Tom Cruise and you look at the screen and it's an other actor :fear: . That voice in your mind belong to a person. Some of our greatest actors came from the dubbing. They always emphasize how to learn to deliver an emotion just with their voice was important for their careers and that now you just need a pretty face to become an actor.

LOL, no, Boo Radley stay Boo Radley (but I think only few people got the reference to the book, not so so famous here, it's like I tell you 'Renzo and Lucia', you'll think 'who?'). It's hard to find this kind of huge mistakes, but like you said some expressions are almost impossible to translate, so I can't not agree that the original version is always better.
Maybe we are a lazy country, but it's really part of our culture, for this reason this tradition is so hard to die here.

mahtra
Feb 6 2014, 07:48 AM

[*] In the diner Sam asks if the pig was sick because his ham sandwich tastes like Aspirin.
"Probleme, Officer?"
"Ja, mit meinem Schinken-Sandwich."
"Im Ernst?"
"War das Schwein krank? Es schmeckt nach Aspirin."


hahaha, ok, this one is good. ours is so bad!
Edited by Overthinker, Feb 6 2014, 01:02 PM.
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LAwoman
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mahtra
Feb 6 2014, 07:48 AM
[*] Chris isn't sporting a 'mamel toe', but has a rolling pin ('Nudelrolle') tucked in his white pants.

[*] In the diner Sam asks if the pig was sick because his ham sandwich tastes like Aspirin.

"Probleme, Officer?"
"Ja, mit meinem Schinken-Sandwich."
"Im Ernst?"
"War das Schwein krank? Es schmeckt nach Aspirin."


[*] He also wonders if the diner's fridge is neutered. The waitress asks how. He tells her: Open the door. Take the eggs out. Close the door. ('Eggs' is a colloquial expression for testicals.)

"[...] Und meine Partnerin wüsste gerne, ob Ihr Kühlschrank kastriert ist."
"Wie soll das gehen?"
"Tür auf. Eier raus. ... Tür zu."


[*] Afterwards that comment is picked up again: The beaver has been castrated. ("Nein McNally, die gehören irgend'nem Biber. Der ist hier kastriert worden.")
Thanks for all the great examples of mangling. These are especially hilarious! :lmao:
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vixenali
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I love the examples too! This thread is very interesting for me :D

overthinker: that's very interesting to hear how much dubbing is a part of Italian culture. I can see how it can be a big career for some actors.
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Overthinker


I was re-watching 2x11, for research purposes, when I found something that really annoyed me about the dubbing. :pirate:
I don't know why or who was the genius but they changed 'was he good? Oh, heavenly!' in 'was it good? oh great!'.
We luckily know the truth, but I feel sorry for poor unaware Italians. One of my favorite moments killed like this. :facepalm:

@vixenali, do you know Giancarlo Giannini? Probably not, but he is one of the actors/dubbers I was talking about. To give you an idea.
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