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The Marlo/Sam Pregnancy Storyline, Part 2; Where to speculate, vent, etc.
Topic Started: Jun 3 2015, 08:46 PM (8,988 Views)
LAwoman
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Since this is a topic that provokes lots of thoughts and opinions, we burned through 50 pages already since last season's finale. As a general policy, we usually close threads that get that long and then start a sequel. So use this one for further discussion.

An interesting few posts came up at the end of the last thread concerning experiences with relatives and others who have mental illnesses. Please feel free to continue that as well as any and all opinions and reactions you have to where this story line is going. We created this specifically to try not to have this topic overtake every other thread on the board. But it's such a hot button issue, you probably will see it crop up other places to a certain extent throughout the season. If that bothers you, try to be patient as it's hard to neatly divide conversations into proper threads. :thanks:
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Avitar and banner artwork courtesy of the very talented Kazza169 and @Suzsx from twitter...Thanks ladies!!!
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CHH


I thought a bit more about the "twists and turns" given the new Information we have about 6x3.

At first I thought that has to do with Sams paternity getting seriously questioned by himself and other character. But that seems to not be happening like at all.
Then I speculated that it might have to do with somekind of complication regarding the bipolar disorder but then we got the interview with RA that implied that they'd try to show that she can do it even with all the issues.
I can't take the comment as it just being a back and forth about if Sam and Andy will make it through it. There will be hard stuff and complications that arise from that family constellation for the rest of their lives, so that would get boring fast.
Another possibility could be if and in what extent Sam battles with the idea of having and raising a child with M as the mother. But so far the only problem he seemed to have was if Andy would be at his side while he does this with M. He seems excited about this child and not think that much about the problems it could create for his relationship with Andy. He might just be ignoring that at the moment though.
Then I thought the possibility of the child not making it because of a medical thing, that even the slightest indentation of that, before he has a chance to actually digest it and everything, apart from the bipolar disorder of the mother might present Sam with the moral dilemma about the child being unwanted and what he wishes to happen, but with
Spoiler: click to toggle
that theory is mostly scrapped. It might come back into play if he's looking at the whole picture and not just focusing on one aspect of it. Sounds cruel but it might happen. It would be easy to just wish this "problem" away if you don't think of it as a child.
Now I'm starting to think that us, the viewers, seeing Sam being confronted about something being wrong with his child might be the writers way of making us go through that angst with him and us beginning to want the kid to make it. For Sam's sake. To see it just from the perspective of a father caring about the fact that his kid is alright, without the other personal stuff.

I mean the writers must know that the idea of Sam having a child with M, something that fundamental that would link him to her forever will make most of their viewers question their sanity. So they need give us something to make it palatable. Of course any medical issues with the kid will most likely be resolved like it was never mentioned by the time Sam went through a whole range of emotions and talked about it to Andy/Oliver. When they think the viewers had enough time and are on board.

I don't know if I'm actually ever able to see it like that. If me seeing Sam go through that and Ben acting it out will actually change my mind. I mean a lot of stuff was portrayed really good and believable but it didn't change my overall view of things like M herself.

Edit: I mean they're awfully keen on showing us that M's taking care of herself and stuff: drinking tea not coffee, snacking on healthy stuff, taking her meds and making sure to mention that that's better for the baby then M not taking them. Even her not stressing over anything.
Usually stuff like that is foreshadowing and leads to it coming back at some Point sooner or later. I don't think they'd just do that because of the bipolar stuff from S4, because there she was taking her meds for a time too and doing sports that could be considered taking care of herself too. IMO, that just being in there to show how great M's doing could be considered kind of weird, especially since the real issues weren't addressed yet. (How she came to Keep the Job and facing no criminal charges, not even a lengthly suspension etc.) So how can she be doing "great"? She should still feel partially guilty. I mean my sister has to deal with whatever she did during an episode due to her bipolar disorder much longer than 4 months and she was never involved in anything like what M experienced/caused.
Edited by CHH, Jun 4 2015, 07:21 AM.
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mimi


CHH, is the thing inside the spoiler box something that came from a promo/interview or is it something you put together from reading/watching promos?
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CHH


mimi
Jun 4 2015, 07:17 AM
CHH, is the thing inside the spoiler box something that came from a promo/interview or is it something you put together from reading/watching promos?
It's referring to something that's mentioned in an article on thetvjunkies.com. I don't think Bridget, the author, would mislead us in that detail. Of course we could see it different once it's in context but I don't think there's much room for interpretation. I wasn't sure if that's too spoilerish for those who want to see the Episode without knowing anything about it. Look for it in the thread for 6x3 "Uprising", the pre-aired ads and stuff. It's in the Spoiler Spot folder. You might have to dig around a bit.
Edited by CHH, Jun 4 2015, 07:28 AM.
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mimi


@CHH

Spoiler: click to toggle

Is that the one? That made me go ugh too when I first read about it, but later on I felt like it didn't necessarily mean
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by mimi, Jun 4 2015, 07:44 AM.
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CHH


mimi
Jun 4 2015, 07:43 AM
@CHH

Spoiler: click to toggle

Is that the one? That made me go ugh too when I first read about it, but later on I felt like it didn't necessarily mean
Spoiler: click to toggle
I think I might not have explained how I meant that the right way.

Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by CHH, Jun 4 2015, 09:46 AM.
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mimi


It'd be nice if they showed us that Sam was actually feeling more conflicted about this baby issue. I still can't get over how he quickly and easy he seemed to be accepting the whole thing. But we still have a bunch of episodes to come so maybe it's too early to say. But as of now, that's what I'm feeling.
Edited by mimi, Jun 4 2015, 09:58 AM.
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CHH


I think it'd be weird if Sam suddenly gets all upset over the kid sometime later before it's born with the wedding coming sometime. You'd think he'd want to plan that without being all weird about that other part of his private life. That getting married, even the preparation is something he wants to enjoy.
Edited by CHH, Jun 4 2015, 01:39 PM.
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mimi


You think we're gonna find out about the gender of the baby this episode?
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CHH


mimi
Jun 4 2015, 04:47 PM
You think we're gonna find out about the gender of the baby this episode?
I don't think I'm ready for that. So better not?!
Edited by CHH, Jun 4 2015, 04:58 PM.
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Unspoken


mimi
Jun 4 2015, 04:47 PM
You think we're gonna find out about the gender of the baby this episode?
Marlo said she wanted it to be a surprise. So maybe we won't find out until D day. Not everyone wants to know. Yes Andy and Sam would want to know, because Andy hates surprises.
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mimi


I have to be honest, if by some surprising twist it turns out the baby isn't Sam's, I'll still think a proposal is a bit too soon. I firmly believed the reason they gave us this wedding was because they thought this was the series finale and they wanted to make the fans happy. I'm so happy we *finally* get the wedding, but at the same time, I'm feeling a bit discouraged. Is that even possible? I sound a bit ungrateful.

Let's say we finally know about whatever twist it is about this baby in between episode 5 - 7. That's 3 episodes left for Sam to do the proposing, since the last one will be the wedding. After this roller coaster of a season, it just feels a bit too much. Why did they have to cram so many things in such short period of time? Why did they have to go with this baby storyline? :(
Edited by mimi, Jun 5 2015, 08:09 AM.
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Kiwi
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Nothing can make up for this storyline...I don't want to sound ungrateful either but a wedding smacks of patronizm. At this stage, it feels like without the baby storyline there wouldn't be a wedding and that's pretty crappy :fail: It wouldn't have bothered me if Andy and Sam didn't get married but that we see a strong commitment to one another - without anyone coming between them.

The measurement of happy ever-after doesn't have to be marriage...couples who have been together many years but decide for whatever reason to not marry are not necessarily less committed to one another or love one another less than a couple who are married (I'm neither against or for marriage, however, I don't think marriage means to me that I'm more in love or more committed)...sorry I went a little off track. It seems like the baby storyline is THE ULTIMATE TEST...win and you get married :clap: In some ways it is the ultimate obstacle but Andy and Sam shouldn't have to overcome it to "earn" their right to marry.

When RB :police: ends, it won't be Andy and Sam's wedding that I remember most, it will be a farcical storyline that is purely a plot device. It detracts rather than adds to the meaningfulness of the McSwarek Love Story.

Shame on you writers. Shame. :omg:
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CHH


@Kiwi You hit the nail on the head, so to speak.
Ultimately a wedding doesn't say anything about how much people love each other. I mean what's with same-sex couples who live in a country where they legally can't marry? Do we just assume they love each other less because they aren't married? I have a friends who's together with her girfriend like forever and you can just tell how much they love each other by watching them.
My aunt and uncle are together for over 30 years without ever wanting to get married. They have kids and grandkids etc. I asked them why they won't get married and the answer was that that couldn't possibly make them love each other any more then they already do.
My best friend got married two years ago and wanted a divorce a few months later because the jerk cheated on her.

A child on the other hand literally means you're connected to that person you have the child with for the rest of your life. In some cases even after that child left again. I know someone who had a child with her boyfriend, then they broke up and the child died of some form of cancer a few years later. They still get together regulary to talk about their child. It's heartbreaking. I could imagine something similar if the kid doesn't make it; it would bond Sam and M even closer together because yet again they'd be going through something that Andy isn't really a part of, again, because she's not really related to it. Losing their child.

If you compare Sam having the child with M and getting married to Andy in a way the kid's always going to be more meaningful, even if the wedding is something really great and some big romantic gesture they make to each other. In a way a marriage can be remedied fairly easy, but that child's always going to be leaving a lasting impression on their parents. Even a miscarriage when the woman didn't even know she was expecting makes most woman miss something they didn't even knew they had.
Edited by CHH, Jun 5 2015, 10:03 AM.
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mimi


There are countries and cultures that view couples living together, having kids without getting married and all that as taboo, but it's not the issue here. I think in this case, marriage is viewed as a symbol of an everlasting love and happily ever after. Granted, it doesn't guarantee anything, as Kiwi and CHH said, but it's the symbolism that people love about it. I think.

But of course, if we get a season 7, some people will be surprised cos the happily ever after will turn out not as problem-free and happy as they thought after all cos god forbid Sam and Andy gets a full year without any hurdles coming at them :ermm:
Edited by mimi, Jun 5 2015, 10:13 AM.
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rach88


Kiwi and CHH I agree with what you'd pretty much what youse have been saying all morning from the episode now to this. Youse are so right I do feel abit patronised by the writers about this storyline. Apparently it shows the great commitment and love it is the ultimate test Sam and Andy have to work through to finally earn to be together, something they have to go through and work through to earn the right to get 'married'. I too do not want anyone thinking I am ungrateful or not a 'true fan' (I don't think you can say that about someone) because I disagree with the direction, come on I have been following and stuck with the show for 5years...this is what we have been waiting for, but for me I wouldn't have needed a wedding at the end, not if it feels rushed or unbelievable.
I too have an uncle and his partner who have been together 28years they have 6children (4girls and 2boys) they have never married they had their first two children young and lived together....they are the most committed strong loving couple I know and they feel no need what so ever to get married. Now the rest of my family have all married and settled down but it doesn't mean him and his partner don't love each other or are any less committed to each other, while 2 of my other relations have married, their marriages have ended in divorce because they got married for the wrong reason. I'm not saying if you get married it necessarily a bad thing but you can be in a very happy committed solid relationship without getting married so I just don't want it to feel that the baby storyline was the reason we are seeing a wedding. We have 8episodes left, nicks episode next week and take out the last for the wedding leaving 6 episodes for us to see Sam and Andy get to a good strong place. I want more that 2minute conversations at the end of an episodes I want to see Sam open up telling Andy things he so easily tells Oliver, even Marlo. I don't want him to say them once he's backed into a corner or feels that Andy is going to leave, both of them at this stage in the season need to be reassuring each other.

I recently read an article that carried out research that said that most people who where married parents stated that having a child trumped their wedding day. it was basically said that having a child was the best thing, that most felt that a marriage to a certain extend didn't change anything really just made things more legal while a having a child/children changed their lives forever. (If I can find the article I will try and quote it) .
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mimi


Oh wow, only 6 episodes. Someone mentioned on this board that what if Marlo gave birth during the wedding. I swear if that happens... but aren't there some spoilers about the church scenes? Seems like it goes a-okay. Unless it happens after. So the wedding day is also the birthday of the baby :facepalm:
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soccermom


Did anyone else notice that the radiologist said (need to watch again to get exact words but along the lines of) "everything's ok, she's a bit small but ok". Maybe I'm grasping at straws but that jumped out at me. Error with the dates? Seems unlikely as this wasn't the first ultrasound and they are very accurate - all 3 of my kids were born on the date the 1st ultrasound predicted. Tassie has said maybe Marlo is more pregnant than we think - baby being small could mean M's less pregnant than she thinks so baby might not be Sam's and fits in with the theory that she became pregnant during the time she was off her meds and in a manic phase. Clutching at straws right?!?!
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mimi


I don't think having Marlo sleeping with random guys during her manic episodes will paint a positive light on mental illnesses the way the writers intended to do, but who knows with these writers.
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CHH


I don't really think that has anything to do with it turning out that Sam's not the father and everything with us worrying about what loosing a kid would do to Sam and therefore Andy. They're trying to get us to root for the kid to make it.

Going with the general tone regarding the manic episode: Well, sleeping with random guys wouldn't be her fault either; it was all the bipolar disorder and the whole thing had nothing to do with any decisions she made. So Sam wouldn't even be allowed to get angry at that either.

Plus, with M being more concerned about how other people think of her I can't really see her actually putting the well-being of the kid above her own.
Edited by CHH, Jun 5 2015, 12:00 PM.
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